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Hopefully the plight of what has happened to these fisherman who livelihood have disrupted is brought to light.Also the illegal dumping of these waterways is by international law a crime.By the way muslimmatters.com has a excellent article on this issue.Also there was post weeks ago of a brother admitting to his naivete to the issue.Just as we condem these brothers I like to see some post critqueing the President who is now asking for more Americian taxpayers money to fund those adventures in Afghanstan and Iraq.In a financial crisis like this one we can’t afford to keep indulging in he same imperalist nonsense.Abdur Rahman the ones who have employed tatics to mess up these people livelihood are also mobsters amd criminals.Only sick people dump toxic waste and all kinds of pollutants in the ocean.This issue of ecological terroism has been going on for long time.The poorer nations are the dumping grounds for the industrialised world at the expense of their future.Have we forgotten !
May Allah have mercy upon our brothers murdered by the Navy Seals.
Have you ever condemned the violence of the American government towards Muslims you sick fraud?!
@ Bashir
Bro, Muslims have committed more atrocities against THEMSELVES than America ever did!
This is a lie for which you have ZERO evidence!
For all those who don’t have proper information on this please go to the Hue Hamlington show on WBAI 99.5 FM in Newyork Paficia.On Monday and Tuesday they covered this with people who know the issue.It is close 2hrs the show you just have to find the portion in which the topic was talked about.Don’t be snowballed by the media here.These people can’t trusted.
Black Agenda report post a excellent article on this issue.Always informative as usual.Also Johaan Hari a columinist for the Independent as a excellent commentary on this issue.Uncle Barak proves that he has know problem in killing people who look like him for these savage European powers who have dump nuclear waste and toxiicities in the waterways.Shame on muslims who supported this poltical hack so blindly and got blinded by coporate commercialism .Yes we can nonsense along with fake sweeping time for change rhetoric.Bailing out Bankers who are mobsters,continue funding of war,CiIA torturers off the hook,murdered of brothers of our brothers from Somalia,UAW workers underminded.Take off the blinders sorry to go off the topic.But as Pam Africia said its just blackface on empire.Know real substanial change.By the way when we going get our stilmplius package.
If these pirates were targetting the foreign ships involved in dumping toxic waste that would be one thing. But they’re not doing this. Instead, they are kidnapping and robbing anybody and everybody who happens to sail by. This is WRONG. And eventually will backfire on the villages where these ship-jackers come from. In several ways. First, it will disrupt the flow of whatever aid is coming there. And two, it will eventually lead to foreign governments taking revenge upon the clans and villages that the pirates are from.
Thus far, foreign heads of state have exercised great restraint with this situation. I know that I would probably make an example by utterly destroying the villages that the pirates come from as a warning and as retaliation.
I hate to see us repeat our cultural habit of automatically supporting criminals who happen to be Black; or to transfer this habit and start supporting criminals who happen to be nominally Muslim. I understand the history of injustice that created these embedded, knee-jerk responses (the Scottsboro boys, lynchings, Rosa Parks, etc.). This conditioned response has become dysfunctional because the times and circumstances have changed. Modern Black criminals are not the Scottsboro boys. Nor are they Rosa Parks. Modern Black criminals tend to be more like the Dunbar Village gang rapists, and those who committed the Hovey Street murders.
In this context, these Somali pirates that many of us want to support are most likely: (1) anti-Black (judging from the reports I’ve read of the anti-Black, racist behavior of Somali immigrants in the US; and (2) would not hesitate to kill any of US if we were aboard one of these ships that they’ve stolen.
Wa Salaam.
@ Kwame
Jazak Allahu Khairan for your defense of the Muslims. This is true wala my brother. May you be blessed with Paradise
@ Khadija
You need to learn some deen and understand that Muslims support Muslims over the kufaar PERIOD. We especially do not believe the lying kaafir media as our brother Kwame has pointed out. Support your Muslims brothers!
@ Umm
I am not so sure those poor Egyptians who were kidnapped by the pirates feel the “brotherhood” and “support” you are referring to. Yes it is all a conspiracy by the Kuffar media, there are no pirates.
@Umm
You need to learn some deen, and stop abusing the deen by using it as a cover for supporting evil. Period.
any of you sisters single?
Sincerely,
Aboo Tasneem
What about encouraging the Somalis to do some serious nation building?
The only reason piracy exists in Somalia is because the reach of the pseudo goverment is practrically non-existent.
Who in their right mind wants to harbor pirates (criminals ) in their surroundings.
It is amazing how some Muslims believe in supporting criminal behaviour.
Is inmorality a tenet of Islam?
Bashir,Aboo Muaiyah,Rasheed,Kwame Madden, shame on all of you.
Criminals and enablers will not enter Paradise
If Somalia, was a serious country with laws to protect both its sovereignty and its citizens, no entity or foreign nation would have gotten away with dumping toxic waste there.
Muslims, learn to build first, stop destroying and succumbing to emotionalism and planning of revenge when you have nothing in store and can’t even fight like real men.
Look how the Navy Seals took out those ignorant, backward, cave men in a dash.
It is obviously that Khadija you are igorant of the facts.The post put up was a rush job to judgement.The facts of this conflict were totally ignored.Amil Cabral once said no invesgation no right to speak.Obviously you are igorant of alwala-walbara and you don’t understand the fundamentals of this din.Thankyou Umm for the compliment may Allah grant you paradise also.We must defend the din and members of this ummah who are castigated by pseudo inltellectuals.Stop the mental gymnastics and stop becoming apoligists for the kufr who have harm the muslim lands for centuries.
Nailah fight like real men isn’t the kufr U.S.army sending drones into Pakistan.Get real sister!When has not the U.S.army fought without using some of most advance weaponary the world has ever seen.These commandesrs and generals are evil.Have we forgotten history.
Nailah lets not forgot how these enmies of humanity fought aganist Africian americian people here in this country.Americian prisions still have many of freedom fighters from the Black liberation struggle in prision.Bashir Hameed just died not so long ago.By the way Obama has just gotten nasseah from Americian Israeli intellgence and groups.Yes your first Black President is making sure that this country does not attend the world conference on racism in Switzerland.Fortunely the grassroots representation will be there.Obama can diss black people all day long and nothing is said.Also what happened to the Obama mania movement it has just dissipated into the wind.Like most polliticians this slickers got were he wanted to get.
@Kwame:
If you actually believe what you’re saying, why don’t you go over there and demonstrate some tangible (as opposed to lip-flapping) support by assisting your pirate brothers? Could it be because they would take you hostage just like they’ve done with others?
Furthermore, if you haven’t already left this country (you know…in order to avoid paying taxes to the kuffar and the elected “tyrant”) perhaps this is another tangible action that you should consider. You sound as hypocrital as the immigrant Muslims who on the one hand like to scream “Death to America”-type slogans, and on the other hand get upset if they can’t get a green card to stay here.
Finally, if you care anything at all about YOUR (as well as other Muslims’) continued ability to live and move around freely in this country, perhaps you should rethink your inflammatory public statements. You sound just like the dangerous, treasonous, fifth columnists that anti-Muslim bigots assume that we all are.
In fact, one might wonder if you’re a government-sponsored agent provocateur looking to entrap unwitting Muslims into making foolish statements that could be used against them in trumped-up prosecutions. Since you’re so aware of Black history, I’m sure you’ve heard of COINTELPRO and the techniques that were used. What you and a few other unwise individuals are engaging in here resembles some of those entrapment techniques.
It is one thing to vehemently criticize this country’s policies. It is something totally else to support individuals who held a fellow citizen of your country hostage. I don’t support evil. And I don’t support agent-provocateur-type inflammatory statements.
Miss know it all Dhoruba Bin Wahad, Ashanti Alston,Tariq Haskins,The late Safia Bukhari may Allah have mercy upon her are all people I have had frenidship with since my early twenties.I have attended conferences on Poltical Prisioners since !991.Your problem is that your igorant of din.Also your so infatuate with the muslims who came here feom different countries you now can’think about this issue fairliy.Armchair igorant of din columnist go back to Islam101 then maybe you might think differently.By the way sister my record speaks for itself I have always stood up for the opresses when there right.
Fellow citizen of your country hostage what about the countless muslims who are held in detention ctrs all throughout this country.Were your defense of them .Oh I forgot there not from Americia or not from our tribe so it doesen’t matter if they get tortured.I could give dam about these ati muslim bigots right now sister!That your problem deal with it.Entrampment techniques sister please you starting to make a fool of yourself.
@Kwame:
If you have true friendship and solidarity with the people you mentioned, then you would be careful NOT to lead Muslims into the same traps that many of these activists fell into. A believer is not stung from the same hole twice.
_____________________________________
A warning to the (often gullible) Muslims:
A believer is not stung from the same hole twice. Be aware that government agents have already, and will continue to, come among us looking to set up naive, gullible Muslims for prosecution. Encouraging you to make statements that could get you indicted as part of a so-called terrorst conspiracy is one of their favorite tricks. LEARN FROM WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE YOU.
An excellent book that discusses in detail the various tricks & traps of COINTELPRO (and those activists who fell into those traps) is War at Home by Brian Glick.
O Muslims, you have to wiser than your (many) enemies. You have to be wise in your activism. You have to wise in how you support your brothers and sisters. Don’t let somebody loud talk and bully you into a federal penitentiary. Don’t let potential agents play on your emotions so you become yet another Muslim casualty.
To accuse someone of being agent is very dangerous.Abdur Rahamn has been accused of being agent but I defended him because this type of accusations is dangerous.That right sister,so you need to be careful of what you post.Muslim should be able to differ without this type of nonsense being thrown at one another.On the authority of Ibn Abbaas [may Allah be pleased withg them both]that the [Messenger of Allah [Allah's blessing and peace be upon him]said;Were people to be given according to their claims,men would claim the wealth and blood of the people.But the burden of proof is upon the plaintiff and the taken of an oath is upon the one who denies[the allegation].’It is a hasan hadith.Al-Baihaqi and others recorded it inthat fashion and parts of ot are in the two Sahihs[of al-Bukhari and Muslim].Im bringing forth this hadith because thecommentary expounds on alegations of falsehood.Sister I repeat the fundamentals are very important.
Bro. Kwame,
Yes, it is dangerous to raise questions as to whether or not somebody is an agent. However, what you (and a few others) were engaged in on this particular thread was creating an ever GREATER danger to the Muslims. I care about the safety of my fellow Muslims. And I’m not going to passively sit back and watch people lead Muslims into KNOWN traps. This is not “nonsense;” these are known traps that have already victimized many Muslims.
It’s difficult to envision any activist who lived through COINTELPRO making the same sorts of mistakes twice, in good faith. It’s difficult to envision anybody who claims fellowship with imprisoned activists making the same sorts of mistakes all over again. If you lived through that, and fellowshipped with those people, then you really have to know how important emotional discipline is to any struggle.
Sir, if you are as you present yourself to be, then you ought to know better than that. YOU should be careful about what you post. I’m not the one leading Muslims into known traps. That’s what YOU’VE been doing up to this moment.
You weren’t willing to reason together with your fellow Muslims who happen to disagree with you. You didn’t bother to point out any sources of information to dispel what you say is false propaganda. You didn’t share any thoughts about what could be done to assist the people suffering in Somalia.
Instead, you immediately jumped into hurling insults, and venting a “hateration” attitude about those who were blessed with education. Since this question about potentially being an agent provocateur is what it took to get you to momentarily STOP endangering other Muslims with unwise, unproductive, loose talk, then it was worth it.
I don’t want to see any more gullible Muslims flung into federal prisons over some foolish, loose talk. Whether I agree or disagree with the subject matter of the unwise, loose talk.
Khadija says,
“I know that I would probably make an example by utterly destroying the villages that the pirates come from as a warning and as retaliation.”
Thereby killing hundreds if not thousands of innocent people, including children, women, old and infirm men. All in response to a few rag tag criminals from a dysfunctional country? Sister that isn’t reasonable and in fact sounds quite insane. I guess we should be glad you’re not at the head of any geo-political strategy issues.
@M.T. Akbar:
Any and every government/ruler has a duty to protect their citizens from being kidnapped, robbed and/or murdered.
Now, you and others can correct me if my memory has failed me about this, but didn’t one of our early rulers GO TO WAR over ONE captured and dishonored Muslim woman? Thereby risking the lives of the innocent people affiliated with those who had dishonored this one woman?
We can coddle our criminals if we wish. However, we cannot expect others (especially other people who are their victims or their victim’s rulers—who are responsible for their safety) to also coddle them.
Khadija there is a hadith that saids Fear of people should never stop a man from speaking the truth when he is aware of it’s ie. the truth.You sound like a dangerous , treasounus ,fifth columnist that anti -muslims assume we are.Sister hadiths like this and others should encourage us all to speak the truth.I don’t give dam about these antimuslim bigots perception of this ummah..By the way loose talk is what you have engaged in.My loose talk is speaking the truth and not caring who dosen’t like it.There no recruiting going on here for muslims to do something stupidI hate to see our culture habit of automatically to be supporting criminals who happen to black.When our folks are wrong I have no problem calling it out.What were trying to point out to you and others is the propagand of the media.Yes there are some rogue elenments amongst the so called pirates.The bigger picture is the what has been done to the Somali people.Also the Islamic Courts before the invasion did bring some civility back to this country before the invasion by Ethopia.By the way the U.S. financed much of this adventure.The history of Somalia has been filled with outside forces damaging the infrastructure and their way of life which happens to be Islam.We should makke dua that this nation can get back on the right track .
@Kwame:
If you don’t care about the harm that you are doing to the Muslims who are your neighbors with this unwise, unproductive, loose talk (DESPITE the harm that it created for those activists you claim to have friendship with), then there is no reasoning with you. This is NOT the behavior of somebody who cares about Muslims’ safety and wellbeing. This is the behavior of an provocateur. There is nothing left to say to you.
____________________
I will simply repeat my warning to the Muslims: DON’T let anybody lead you into a trap and set you up for a prison cell by playing on your emotions with loud, loose talk and bullying.
Bro. Kwame is free to choose to sit in a prison cell if that is his desire, and his KNOWING, conscious choice. Don’t join him in that cell unless that is what you KNOWINGLY choose for yourself. Don’t let anybody TRICK you into sharing the cell next door to them.
M.T.Akbar the problem is our willing acceptance to just jump all over other muslims so quickly under the guise of masqureding self righteous.People are so quick to rush to judgement without exameing the facts and history of conflicts.Also the igorance of din.The fundamentals of this din.
Sister what loud ,loose talk ,and bullying.You are out to lunch.Hopefully this website will condem the President for letting tortures off the hook and saying the U.S.willing for their expenses.Lets make it clear we will pay for their legal fees.Spain is going after crimiinals andwe should be supporting.Tune in ccr.org[Centet for Constinual Rights.Sister would you say the Prophets of Allah were agents because they spoke truth to power.Don’t let me go through the litiany of strugglers who spoke truth to power amongst our tribe.Your analysis is faulty and condescending.One of the main causes of infiltration is the ideal be putting out there so easy that a person is a agent with out a shred of evidence.Shaitain whispers and you easikly succumb to his whispers.
Khadija you say,
“@M.T. Akbar:
Any and every government/ruler has a duty to protect their citizens from being kidnapped, robbed and/or murdered.”
That’s not in question sister. No one said one cannot protect their citizens from being kidnapped, robbed or murdered.
“Now, you and others can correct me if my memory has failed me about this, but didn’t one of our early rulers GO TO WAR over ONE captured and dishonored Muslim woman? Thereby risking the lives of the innocent people affiliated with those who had dishonored this one woman?”
There is no parallel between what you advocate (annihilation, cleansing of whole villages) which is pretty much targeted assasination of innocent civilians and what that early ruler did. What you advocate is something similar to the Dresden bombing or the collective punishment the Israeli Defense Forces inflicted on Gazans. The logic you use is punish them and people completely innocent of their crimes and they will stop. This will only make the situation a hundred times worse and in fact will likely succeed in creating more chaos and havoc.
The ruler you refer to didn’t liquadate whole villages. Even in your own wording you concede that there was only a “risk” to innocent life, not as you advocate that they would be specifically targeted for murder! SubhanAllah.
Furthermore, let us base our actions upon the model of the Prophet pbuh who made the general ruling of war to be that no women, children or old people should be killed. Neither should palm trees be cut, etc. That is mercy and compassion for you something absent from your rash comments.
As far as the Somali pirates go. Then it is a given that you don’t deal with criminals whether it be the mafia, drug cartels, gun runners, sex slave industry by BLASTING and ANNIHILATING the town where they work or originate from! That’s insanity. When you deal with criminals you have to go about it in a manner that is consensus oriented and firmly grounded in the rule of law! You send these people to prison, you don’t kill their relatives. By your logic we should annihilate Sicily, or the fact that Heroin is causing an epidemic of drug use in Iran compels Iran to destroy villages in Afghanistan.
The Somalia situation is indeed complex, and bro.Kwame brought up some valid points as regards to the complicity of the US and the West in creating that disaster. For your edification let me state I AM NOT blaming the US for all of Somalias problems, but they are complicit. One simple question no one seems to ask is that when Southern Somalia started having a functioning government before the American backed Ethiopian invasion was there any piracy? If so was it at the level it is today?
Well put Bro.M.T.Akbar and can’t be put better.Any refutation of just what you put out there is somebody ewho just has a ego who can’t submit to truths.May Allah bring stabilty and goverance back to that region of the horn of Africia.
@M.T. Akbar:
I’m responding because your reply consists of something more than insults.
You’ve (perhaps deliberately) misconstrued my earlier statement. Let me repeat it.
I said, “If these pirates were targetting the foreign ships involved in dumping toxic waste that would be one thing. But they’re not doing this. Instead, they are kidnapping and robbing anybody and everybody who happens to sail by. This is WRONG. And eventually will backfire on the villages where these ship-jackers come from. In several ways. First, it will disrupt the flow of whatever aid is coming there. And two, it will eventually lead to foreign governments taking revenge upon the clans and villages that the pirates are from.
Thus far, foreign heads of state have exercised great restraint with this situation. I know that I would probably make an example by utterly destroying the villages that the pirates come from as a warning and as retaliation.”
I did NOT say that my likely reaction would be the CORRECT thing to do. Nor did I ever “advocate” that this is what should be done. I said that others have exercised great restraint in NOT doing what I would probably do.
One of our ummah’s (many) problems is that we have begun to imitate some of the flaws of the Jewish community. Many Jews seem to feel that any crime is permissible as long as it is done to non-Jews. Similarly, many of us seem to feel that any and all crimes are permissible as long as they are committed against non-Muslims.
Too many of us seem to have lost our understanding of basic right and wrong, and have opted for a sliding scale of relative morality/ethics that are based upon whether the victims are Muslim or not. Not only is this wrong, but it will ultimately backfire on us all.
“Blast them all” is a tempting, human response when one’s people have been preyed upon and wronged by others. I would imagine that many rulers find themselves in a position where their citizens are clamoring for such a response. I’m thinking of the protests held in Turkey in support of military action against the Iraqi Kurds after several alleged Kurdish attacks on the Turks. If I remember correctly, the Turks sent in fighter jets and troops to blast what were referred to as “Kurdish bases.” I don’t know whether these were “bases,” or simply Kurdish villages. In any event, the Turkish government did this with what appeared to be the full support of their people.
The difference with the examples you’ve given of Sicily and other places is that these countries have functioning governments that can be held responsible for the actions of their citizens.
Another thing is that I get the feeling that those who are cheeleading for the Somali pirates would object to ANY action taken to protect foreign ships. They would object if the merchant shps were armed with effective weaponry to use to repel the pirates. (“They [defended themselves against hijackers] and shot at our brother [pirates]!”) They would object to Special Forces missions to specifically target the hijackers ONLY. (“They killed our brother [pirates]!”)
In short, the pirates’ cheerleaders seem to think that other people are obligated to put up with being kidnapped and robbed. Or to feel sorry for the hijackers. This is an irrational belief, which will ultimately backfire on the Muslims. Eventually, the outside world will stop bringing aid into Somalia because of the danger created by the pirateis. Then what will the pirate cheerleaders say? (“They’re letting our brother [pirates] starve!”)
@ M.T. Akbar & Kwame Madden
How can you guys defend what is blatently wrong? Both of your comments are quite unbelievable actually. They’re also quite depressing. It appears that some Muslims lack a basic sense of human decency.
Somalia is a basket case, a place where each tribe is desperately trying to destroy the other through war and stavation. It is a place of cold, heartless, ignorant people who are only marginally Muslim and could care less about the Muslim “brothers” and “sisters” IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY, never mind Black American Muslims who they dispise.
@ Khadija
Now I see why you have distanced yourself from these cowardly hypocrites who enable criminals. Kwame and M.T. Akbar cannot be reasoned with. To them, al wala wa bara means defending crime and injustice. It also means hating one’s country. It would be one thing if they packed up their belongings and moved to a hell hole like Somali, with their “Black brothers”. At least I would have a little more respect for them. But no, they will avail themselves to all the blessings of American citizenship even as they spew hated against their own country. How can anyone respect people like that. And then when you don’t agree with their treachery and cowardice, they call you a “pseudo-intellectual”. It’s just pathetic.
@Bro. Abdur-Rahman:
Yes, this is exactly why I’ve walked away from the ummah. It’s simply not safe for any decent person to be around such people. The frightening thing is that the ummah has become an exaggerated mirror image of the dysfunctions that are currently destroying the general African-American collective:
1-”Hateration”/jealousy of those who have been blessed with education. This “I hate intellectuals” = “I hate educated people.” This is the same position held by many of the more deliberately clueless Bush supporters/FOX “News” viewers. NO human society that hates the educated can survive over the long-run, much less prosper. Especially when competing societies value education and those who acquire it. Our enemies DON’T “hate on” their educated members. We should remember this as they continue leave us behind in the dust.
2-No understanding of public safety.
3-No understanding of right and wrong.
4-We have become a massive support network for criminals, as long as they are Black (or in this case, nominally Muslim).
5-Borg-like uniformity. Which leads to insults and denunciation of anyone who fails to repeat the current “party line.” It amazes me to see how TOTALITARIAN our wanna-be, self-proclaimed “activists” are. I definitely would NOT want to live under anything such people had control or power over.
It would ultimately be just like living in Cambodia during Pol Pot—whose government, by the way, also “hated on” his society’s educated members. In fact, they killed their educated people. Many of our self-proclaimed “grassroots activists” seem to share this same sentiment. It’s not safe for us to be around such hateful, jealous people. To paraphrase the Noble Quran: The hatred that they speak for educated people is shocking enough, the hatred for us that they (barely) conceal in their hearts is even worse! There are MANY wanna-be Pol Pots among our self-proclaimed “grassroots activists.”
Any collective of people who hold the above-described attitudes cannot function, much less be competitive with others. Our ummah (along with the African-American community in general) will become part of a PERMANENT, GLOBAL underclass, while other people move forward into the future.
Inna Lillah wa inna ilayhi Raji3oon,
I see we have posts by Khadija and ARM here insinuating somehow, practically out of their imaginations that I support or enable the Somali pirates EVEN AFTER I MADE CLEAR IN MY POST THAT I DO NOT SUPPORT THEM.
Did you gloss over this in your haste ARM and Khadija?:
“As far as the Somali pirates go. Then it is a given that you don’t deal with criminals whether it be the mafia, drug cartels, gun runners, sex slave industry by BLASTING and ANNIHILATING the town where they work or originate from! That’s insanity.”
I made a distinct point that seems to have gone over both of your heads in my original REBUTTAL of Khadija’s desire to “utterly destroy” (no room for interpretations here) “their villages.” Where is your principles ARM, you are quick to pronounce judgment on Muslim deviants but will you be consistent in your principles and let your friend Khadija know that “utterly destroying” people is not the way to go? That’s criminal and hypocritical! Her half baked justification for it is even more ridiculous.
Furthermore, neither one of you knows what my concept of Al-Wala wa Al-Bara is but rather you project the beliefes that you think I should hold because you can’t box me in to your narrow view of Muslims. ARM, I don’t have the radical past that you have, I didn’t hold virulent and hateful opinions of America EVER. Believe it or not people have been MODERATE before you had your mid-life crisis declared allegiance to the party of the Donkey.
It seems in your worldview one cannot be an active CITIZEN of the USA, cultivating paidea and be critical, severly critical of US policy and history! Sorry, but that’s my fundamental RIGHT as an American and my DUTY as a MUSLIM.
No one, including you ARM wants to engage with the substance of my post but rather hurl insults. That’s fine.
Can someone answer this unanswered question:
One simple question no one seems to ask is that when Southern Somalia started having a functioning government before the American backed Ethiopian invasion was there any piracy? If so was it at the level it is today?
-MT
@M.T. Akbar:
Did I call YOUR name regarding supporting the pirates? I referred to “those who are cheeleading for the Somali pirates.” I was quite specific in responding to Bro. Kwame’s statements and stated positions. If I was referring to you as a pirate-cheerleader I would have clearly said so.
Furthermore, you don’t know anything about my “worldview.” You are choosing to make a (false) generalization based on my position regarding this particular incident. Also, Bro. Abdur-Rahman and I have MANY points of disagreement, particularly when it comes to now-Pres. Obama.
This is a large part of what is so tiresome (and usually pointless) about trying to communicate with so many Muslims. So many individuals PRESUME their position to be the only pro-Muslim position. It reminds me of the fools who have made the mistake of trying to play “Blacker than thou” with me. I am one of the people who have been severely critical of US policies and history. I am someone with a long personal history of protesting against US policies, dating back to the anti-apartheid struggle when I was in college.
Who are you to presume that anyone who disagrees with you (on this one issue) is not, and has not, been severely critical of American policy and history?
I’ve publicly spoken out against US policies in the past. I expect to continue to do so in the future. I draw the line at treason. I also draw the line at loose talk that serves NO productive purpose except to elicit potentially incriminating statements from other Muslims.
The other pattern with so many Muslims is that they are bullies who have grown used to talking down to anybody who disagrees with them (the supreme arrogance of “you need to learn the deen” statements—which assumes that the one who says this can honestly claim to “know the deen”), but then they whine when somebody slaps them back with the same tone of voice.
I started off WITHOUT attacking or insulting anybody. I simply stated my position. Then came the insults from you and Kwame. All because I disagree with you. So, then I started addressing Kwame and you in the same tone of voice that you used regarding me. Then you misrepresented my earlier statement. And now you’re complaining. Like Kwame, you simply got the reactions that you invited with your boorish behavior.
And with this I’m through with you, since now you’re veering off into complete bad faith regarding this conversation.
Yes brother M.T. Akbar Somalia was starting to have some stability.The U.S. decided to put the clamps opn that.But ARM will skip over that point like he does other things to show his new alliegance to his country.Abdur Rahman did you find that convenant job you so desperatley want.Abdur Rahman as you told this morning you see nothing wrong the navy seales so guess pretty soon you advocating that there nothing wrong with muslims joining on with them.I guess you now taken on the same bullacrap the Americian Muslim Mission had been advocating.By the way have you compiled your list of hadith you reject.To still believe music is halal.That Islamic State stuff is played out.Your new way of thinking is all about getting a job.Even if it means bashing the ummah the majority of time.By the way brother reflect on this hadith being that your blog is now all about tearing up muslims.Abu Darda narrates that the Prophet [SAW];He who mentions a fault in a person,which is not present in him so as to defame him,Allah will detain him in Hellfire till he proves what he said.[Tabrani ,Majma uz Zawaid].Also brother reflect on Surah Al Kahf ayat 101 Those who efforts have Been wasted in this life .While they thought that They were acquiring good .By their works?Don’t put yourself forth before Allah Messenger! Get back on your din.
@ Kwame
Barak Allahu feek Brother. You are a shining lihgt on this blog. All of the dunya and degrees and music and all that stuff that seems to matter so much to everyone nowadays will mean nothing on the Day of Judgement. They may laugh atus becuase we are poor and not educated in some eleite kaafir college but we have this deen and that is waht matteres. I’d rather be poor and on this deen than rich and astray. this is ths test of the beilievers
The islamic state will be back and the first ones to receive the punishment will be the so called “moderates”. Allah’s promise is true and the promise of Shaytan is a LIE. We will all be living under Islam soon!
Dear sis. Khadija,
I had and have no intention in getting into an internet-flame-war here. I will address some of your comments with the full expectation that you will not respond, as you stated you are through with me.
First of all, I never insulted you. I called your comment “insane” which it is. Your comment was rash and based on faulty logic. I don’t agree with it but I don’t deny your right to hold that or any other “opinion, beliefe, etc.” It may be the most blasphemous ridiculous opinion but I would engage you and never bully you or anyone else for that matter into a position. Nor do I hold myself as the most knowldegable possesor of true Islam, etc. I hope to actualize the statement uttered by Imam Shafi’, “I wish for the truth to come from my opponents mouth rather than mine.”
Your victimization mentality is quite preposterous. All of a sudden you want to act as if people are picking on you. Bro. Kwame, aside from his comment about “learn some deen” has been doing nothing other then directing commenters to look at this issue intelligently and beyond their subjective myopic lens. I haven’t seen one thing here which points to Bro.Kwame evincing support for these pirates.
You have been insulting and putting down people from your very first post. You also insulted me without me attacking your person at all.
Also it is untrue, (as anyone who parses through these comments can see), that you have not attempted to indirectly accuse me of supporting these pirates. After ARM’s tirade (his only meek contribution to this comment section by the way) in which he overtly stated that we are “defending” the pirates and calls us “cowards” and “hypocrites” you state:
“Yes, this is exactly why I’ve walked away from the ummah. It’s simply not safe for any decent person to be around such people.”
Really? Unsafe to be around us? I’m beginning to see the excessive exaggerations and reliance on half-truths that seem to be markers of your contribution.
I salute you for your efforts on behalf of the oppressed and speaking your conscious, may Allah keep you in that path and away from the path of mocking the poor, or seeking to “utterly destroy” peoples. The reward is with Him.
Finally, JAK bro.Kwame for answering the question about the American backed Ethiopian invasion of Somalia which toppled the first real promise of a functioning government in Somalia since Saeed Barre and how that effected the rise in piracy. I don’t expect ARM, conspicously ABSENT from this discussion or Khadija to answer that since it has been left unanswered for a few days now.
Peace.
-MT
@ Abdul Lateef
Being uneducated is not something to be proud about, at least put some effort in spelling correctly. You are not going to get extra good points on Judgement day by being poor and undeducated in this dunya.
So what college degree did the Messenger (pbuh) have? As I remember he said that he was illiterate. I did not saytheer were extra poinsts for being poor. I simply siad that degrees and music and all the elete kaafir education will mean nothing. And THAT is true. These people try to put the wesetrn eductaion above Quran and Sunnah
Abdu Lateef
No one is claiming that education is above Quran and Sunnah (where did you get that from). The kaafir education you are referring is the one you turn to when you are ill and seeking medication, it is what is bringing you news across the world sitting from the comfort of your own home (TV, radio, internet). The kaafir western education enabled you to travel anywhere in a number of hours rather than ride your donkey for days and months. Take a moment to reflect my brother and you will see the benefits that this “western kaafir education” has brought you and do not be arrogant.
Yes the prophet was illiterate and the first surah revealed was “iqra”, if it was not for literate people who WROTE down the quran, would we still be a muslim? The prophet was also a teacher as we still follow his sunna. Al ilm nuur ya akhi and and being illiterate is something to be ashamed about because in this fast changing world unable to read and write is a disability.
Abdul Rahman also has desserted the Masjid and the ummah out of his new found self righteous allegiance to Americia.The muslims are sick according to him.Yes ,we do have problems but this indivual has chosen to sell his akhirah for the dunya.Thats right the man is aiming for a bourgeoisie lifestyle and he do anything to obtain it when it comes defaming the muslims.Nothing wrong with living nice but don’t take shortcuts by trying to get fame by aiming to get on Fox and other right wing propganda networks.As you all see his plan is not working.This man has stated that Yasir Qadi,Jamal Deen Zarabozo,amd Ali Timini are terroists.If you don’t stop brother you will real terror on the Day of judgement for your dastardly deeds on this website.By the way when are you going to produce your book on all the hadiths you reject.Yes,brothers and sisters this man new profound knowledge has led him also to reject hadiths.But myself and M.T.Akbar are hypocrites for just trying to bring about a little clarity.By the way neither one us is cheesing over MSNBC news reporter who ain’t even muslim.Oh i forgot you left the ummah so the law dosen’t pertain to you anymore.Get back on this deen brother stop the nonsense .
By the way Obama adminstration has not call you to be adviser or watcher over muslims affairs.May you can be new wazir of the democratic party.
Bro.Kwame,
It seems John Bolton the neo-con former American UN ambassador under George W. Bush has called for the invasion of Somalia in a coalition of the willing to destroy the pirates and their villages. This view seems to be in line with the action that some commentators on here were desiring. Where does ARM stand, is he with Bolton on this one? Should we go in as a coalition of the willing?
Kwame,
The Muslims will be victorious over those elite peopole. don’t worry about the astray nd their so called educations. it will avial them nothing on the dayof judigement
Thank you brother Abdul Lateef ,and brother M.T.Akbar for your post.Yes those who betray this deen for a miserly price will be sorrowful on tjhe Day of Judgement.When you lose Iman you start talking silly.That why the prescription in Islam is to renew it.So far ARM dosen’t care if his darling president orders drones to used on innocent woman and children in Pakistan.More than likely he will have excuse for opreations to done in Somalia.Love of the muslims always supercedes like for a indivual kaffir.This man represents the wanting aspirations of the empire.
Kwame,
It will be people like you and I that will inhereit the earth because we stood firm whiler the otehrs sold out. welove the muslims because they love Allah. why should we have any love for those who hate our way of life? they will see soon. May Allah keep us firm upon his deen and make us victoroius