Why Going to Morocco is Not the Solution

Posted: November 9, 2007 in Uncategorized
Tags: , , , ,

This past weekend during MANA’s first annual conference, I had an opportunity to weigh in on a deeply troubling trend that’s developed among a growing number of African American Muslim men who jettison to Morocco in search wives. As this phenomenon continues to gain currency among the brothers, I’m afraid that no account is being taken of the negative impact it may inflict not only to the African American Muslim woman (may Allah bless her and give her strength), but also the very existence of the African American Muslim as a separate and distinct ethnic group.I must say that the stage was perfectly set for the verbal “Molotov Cocktail” that I was about to hurl into the unsuspecting crowd. During the Q&A segment of the marriage session of near capacity, I simply walked to the mike, turned to the brothers on my right and said very deliberately, “brothers…..going to Morocco is not the solution”. As the words sunk in, a burst of applause, laughter, and “that’s right brother” surged through the gathering from the women’s side of the room, evoking smiles and chuckles from the men’s side. I then turned to the sisters on my left and made some balancing comments about “good Muslim wives obeying their husbands”, and some more stuff they weren’t really feeling (I should have quit while I was ahead). Salvaging the joke, I quickly reiterated my riotous one-liner and got off the mike to another thunderous applause.

Though I offered the comments in a spirit of light-heartedness and fun, the underlying truth of what most of the audience thought was hilarious, namely that Black men are turning away from their own Black sisters at an alarming rate, is a disquieting commentary on the unrelenting social, economic, and indeed spiritual problems that simply defy solution. We need to explore what is really at the bottom of this tread, for to my mind it seems to betray a disturbance in the natural workings of nature.

In the first place, I would like to offer an unpleasant thought for my African American brothers to consider. What if the shoe were on the other foot? What if African American Muslimahs decided that we were no longer worthy of them, purchased expensive flights half way round the world, only to return with an Arab Muslim husband. To expand the thought further, what if the sister with a completely straight face insisted that her new Moroccan husband, who she knows little or nothing about (the infamous and hopefully by now discredited “stranger-marriage”), is in fact a better Muslim than you are! Just think over that for a minute, in as much as that is exactly what we do to them. Imagine the hurt we would feel being abandoned by our own sisters, daughters, cousins; being told that we’re defective, baggage-carrying rejects that nobody wants. Can anything be more outrageous, nay, un-Islamic even, than that? How then does the pain become any less palpable simply because it is a man in search of a wife, and not the other way around? Aren’t we repeatedly taught to love for our brothers and sisters what we love for ourselves? There is simply no denying that jumping over the heads of our struggling African American Muslim sisters to run after the “other”, smacks of the ” I ain’t nobody til I got me a white girl” syndrome. It sends a loud and pernicious message to the world that our Black women are too unruly, uncouth, unmanageable, unlovable, unredeemable to take as a wife and to build a life with. I’m sorry, I believe she is not only lovable, but worthy of love. She’s crazy at times, but who isn’t. You can’t be a Black man or women in America and not be a little crazy. And if she happens to be in a lowly condition, isn’t it our responsibility as men, followers of the final Prophet and Messenger to humanity (pbuh), to raise her up by Allah’s permission and place her in her proper station. Does it ever occur to us, or do we even care really, that her lowly and unrefined condition stands as an indictment on our own manhood. I should like to know what other people turn their backs on their own women, heaping scorn and invective on her, calling her vile and despicable names (“chicken head”, “Safire”, “B*#th”).

At some point (and hopefully soon) we’ll wake up and realize that the work of reforming, teaching, and molding the lives of our Black Muslim women into a model of refinement, piety, and Islamic elegance, is the work of Islam.

More to come

Comments
  1. […] – the brother who made the infamous comment about going to Morocco at the MANA conference – has started a blog and commented on the situation. He is a very sharp brother and a welcome addition to the discussion […]

  2. brother says:

    “good Muslim wives obeying their husbands”, and some more stuff they weren’t really feeling

    This one point sums up one major reason why these brothers do this. Sorry but no one wants to be married to a woman that denies him his manhood.

  3. umm pookie says:

    I’m sorry, but if you have manhood, real manhood, then no one can deny it to you. The heavyweights among men, namely our blessed prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, and Umar, and many others from amongst the sahaba, did not walk around with a “you got to obey me’ complex. They had often heated discussions with their women folk and were not afraid to be disagreed with. If you always have to assert your authority, then it’s not real. A real man does not have to bully his womenfolk (or anyone else under his care) to be respected by them.

    Maybe part of the problem is that many brothers don’t know how to be real men when it comes to upholding their obligations, and so it’s little wonder when they are told to talk to the hand when they want to start asserting their “rights”. All rights come with responsibility.

  4. anonymous sister says:

    I really wish someone would show me evidence that the Moroccan women are so submissive. I haven’t seen it. In fact out of all the immigrant women I know the only ones really submissive are Pakistani and only a small percentage them. The women I know, yell at their husbands in public, talk about them behind their backs, beat the children. The only thing I can see is that when their AA husband hits them, they don’t call the police or leave and they are really good cooks and they tolerate their husbands not working as much as they should. Other than that I haven’t seen much of a difference. Now I am comparing middle class Black women so I don’t know maybe with poor Black women there is that inner city low class behavior baggage but then the brothers have the same baggage.

    • Partner says:

      Omg you are so right. I had to marry a white brother because I refused to be treated less than my black Muslim father raised me. My father adored me and a lot of this brothers are unfit to be any women’s husband their a joke. And they contribute nothing to their children or wives. When they say they want u to obey them they mean even though I am mean jerk with nothing to offer you not even a kind word I still expect you to take my crap. That’s not a Muslim marriage.

  5. anonymous sister says:

    and… brother the sisters are looking else where so I do think that the community will definitely not be the same. It maybe that eastern women are needed to deal with Black men and Black women will have to look elsewhere. Many are starting to do it.

  6. Abdur-Rahman M says:

    Anonymous Sister

    I agree with you and know a lot of AA brothers in bad marriages with Moroccan women. I don’t mean to bash Moroccan women, but only mentioned Morocco because it is the most common place to go. Other men are also in unhappy marriages with Somali, Sudanese, Egyptian, Senegalese and other kinds of women

  7. No people goes down until their women are weak and dishonored, or dead upon the ground.

    This was said in reference to Muslim on Muslim violence, “It makes no sense to interact with Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and any other group that smiles at us, and yet refuse to acknowledge a fellow Muslim brother or sister who happens to adhere to a different “school of thought.” but applies to this black muslimas aren’t worthy….after all these black men have been raised by black women.

  8. Imanubillah says:

    As Salaamu Alaikum:

    I believe that women should obey their husbands in that which is khair. This is how Allah intended it to be. Many Muslims don’t tend to want to hear the haqq especially when it applies to them. It’s easier to play the blame game although it isn’t effective in solving problems. Just like women want their full rights and want their men to treat them well, they have to reciprocate the same to their men. We should not reduce the situation to listening to a “man”. It’s not about what men tell women to do it is what were commanded to do by Allahu subhanahu wa ta’ala. If women start to realize the difference between the two more marriages will be saved. And if brothers stop abusing their authority over the women, women would not be so quick to resort to disrespecting them.

    In this discussion, I have read that men just want respect and admiration. There is no reason why a woman should not give her husband what is due to him. However, from the sister’s point of view, some men aren’t doing what they are supposed to do so hence, they don’t get what is due to them. This is a huge problem that affects the community. You aren’t going to get respected and appreciation if you aren’t doing anything to deserve it and that goes both ways.

    Women in good marriages to good Black men should treasure them and treat them well. If your husband is paying the bills and making sure you and your children get what you need then there should be no problem with you respecting him and his opinion on matters. This doesn’t mean you conceal your feelings and never voice your opinion but give him the respect of making decisions. If he is a good man and has been treating you well, then inshaAllah you will be able to trust that he will use hikmah in making decisions and that he is concerned about how he deals with you. Treat him in a manner that will display to him that you are appreciative of what he does for your family.

    In regards to some brothers going to Morocco to find wives, this strategy has worked for some and not for others. And yet others are not following the trend at all. Most often, these brothers who go there have been pumped up on illusions. More than likely many have found themselves in too deep before they realize that women are women and they are stretched themselves much farther than they intended. It’s a trend and in regards to Black Muslim men, there have been several. There have been the “Go to Indonesia akh, the women there will untie your shoes for you and everything” and the “Egyptian women are where it’s at” or “Yemeni women don’t want much and they are plentiful”. These are all trends and some good has come about for a few brothers that follow them and others not so much. Some of the brothers who have gone over there have no clue about the culture there or really what will be expected of them. Then they realized they received a lot of beautified information from a few brothers but by then, they have invested too much into the situation to turn back.

    Some of these brothers marry those sisters and realize they don’t want to be with them only to feel trapped because they cannot divorce them as easily as they can women from the west. Those sisters have their brothers, uncles, grandfathers and their fathers as well as the government to back them. And they don’t tolerate ignorance when it comes to their women no matter what the brothers maybe offering. And they are always in the women’s lives unlike many western sisters who don’t have any familial representation. Couple that with the fact that some of those brothers may choose to stay in her country. Many brothers have been rudely awakened. Some love it. But again, it is all about choice.

    I agree that many Black men seek women to increase their manhood or increase their upward mobility. This is viewed as a tremendous weakness in many Black men. The brothers need to already have a strong level of manhood and not look for a woman to affirm them. Stop gathering women as a show of how much of a man you are like back in the time of slavery. It’s not what you have it is what you do with it. Strong men are confident, intelligent and admirable and are not in need of affirmation. They are in need of like minded companions whom they can honor and love.

    It is wrong when Black men refer to Black women as “Bubbas” and other derogatory references just because they prefer women of other nationalities. If you don’t want Black women, that is ok, but don’t ruin their chances of finding what it is they want from men of other races by filling their heads with nasty stereotypes. It’s no different when Black women talk about how trifling Black men are except the bad comments effect the women more than they do the men in terms of marriage.

    All Black men and women don’t have to marry each other but we also should not speak in a vile manner about each other because it aids in the decrease of unity amongst us.

  9. Mashallah, a beautiful blog. Good writing too. Keep up the good work.

  10. muslimah says:

    I agree that many Black men seek women to increase their manhood or increase their upward mobility.

    All men do this. But most other men know they have to bring something to the table (profession, wealth, business success) in order to get that trophy wife. This seems to be a part of the male nature.

  11. brother says:

    Imanubillah said:

    Just like women want their full rights and want their men to treat them well, they have to reciprocate the same to their men

    Agreed, thing is with this conversation is that women and pandering men want to make it onesided, and as you said it is not.

    if there ever was a good thing from the NOI it was MGT for the sisters and FOI discipline for the men.

  12. Dave says:

    Ultimately all one sees here is a lot of hate and mangina tendencies. Whom one marries is thier own business and thiers alone. All of this that was written is just speculative opinion just as anything else.

  13. Manhood says:

    Men have a right to marry whomever they desire, likewise women have that same right. African American men have a reputation that proceeds them and so do African American women. At the end of the day, as Muslims, men have God given responsibilities and providing for family is one of them. Also, respecting the husband is one of them for women. All race issues aside, no man wants a disobedient and disrespectful wife regardless of race and no women wants a lazy, abusive husband regardless of race.

    If a man wants to marry from Morocco what is the problem with that? And if a women wants to marry from Senegal, so what? If a woman prefers a dark skinned man over a light skinned man, so what? Should we create a blog about it?

    This issue is focused on the African American man leaving off his black queen for some other race, but I believe it is much deeper than that. It is known that there is a difference between northern women and southern women in the United States, generally. It may be that I desire the southern women’s southern culture over that of the northern women. Is this something that I should be criticized for?

    Lastly, look at yourself first. We should be trying to live our lives according to our religion. And choosing the person with the best religious qualities should be our first condition and after that we should look to other things.

  14. cncz says:

    Salam alaikoum
    Great post macha Allah, keep blogging

  15. Dave says:

    Manhood,

    Excellent response. Apparently the focus on many of the boards is African-American men in particular being accepted by other races of people and many don’t like it. The vitorol being spewed against AA men and foreign women is stifling and amounts to nothing more than propaganda.

  16. amal says:

    can I just ask , why on earth are men going to morocco to find wives ?

  17. Ahmed Sabree says:

    I suggest that African American men wether they be Muslim or christian or what ever go out and purchase the book “Post Tramatic Slave Syndrom” by clinical Psycologist Dr. Joy Leary it is an excellent book which explains the present psycology,pathology and behavior of the African American people. Imam W. Deen Mohammed said many years ago that African Americans are haunted by what he coined “The Plantation Ghost” the mind and fears from slavery that still plague us today. He said that “slavery (slavery inthe south ) conditioned us to disfunction in the vital areas of our lives” If the African American family could just understand what happened to us during slavery and the hundred years after slavery during American reconstruction and Jim Crow we could began to make progress in the direction of establishing ourselves as a people like every other ethnic group on this earth like Allah entends us to. But as long as we just keep masking our problems with cosmetic religious aperal (kufis’ jalabias,khimars,thiker beads, turbans etc.) then we will always be slaves , exsisting in the present but still living in our past. African American men and women will never understand the significance, apreciation,nessesity or value of marrying eachother as long as we keep scapegoating our real issues, the delima within ourselves. Allah themost high says “Think for surely thinking brings forth great resources”, As-salaam Alaikum brothers and sisters.

  18. Mrs. Sajdah Sabree-Jordan says:

    It is NEVER ok not to want to marry someone of your own race. It is a sick form of self-hatred given to us by Caucasians during slavery. It is very important that we as Muslims of African-American decent realize this. We must know WHY we do the things we do before we can change it.
    When these African-American brothers choose to do this do they ever stop and think what becomes of their culture. Who is going to teach them about slavery and the struggles of the African-Americans to gain freedom in the wilderness of North America? Who is going to teach them to respect t their father as a Black man? Not their mamas because they have no affinity, and even less respect for our culture and therefore see no reason to raise their children to have any either. Your mother IS your culture.
    We all need to understand the pathology of the African-American male. Has anyone asked themselves why these same brothers who are so quick to marry women from North Africa, Indonesia, Pakistan,etc would never think of marrying a woman of West African descent. What is this other than self hatred? These so-called free Muslim men of African-American decent are doing nothing more than perpetuating the stereotype of “good hair” and light skin being better than nappy hair and dark skin.
    Try as we may to use Islam as an escape it keeps coming back to smack us in the face. In the non-Muslim community African-American women have resorted to weaves and colored contacts to hide their true selves, in the Muslim community we use scarves wrapped Arab style to create racial ambiguity A people who don’t know their history are doomed to repeat it. (Brown paper bag anyone)?
    When I looked for my husband I was very clear that he must be an African-American like me. It was very important that he like I appreciate our shared history and have love exclusively for African-American women. He had to like the way we cook, talk, walk, smell, etc. I was so blessed and so every time I have the pleasure to speak to other African-American women Muslim or otherwise I tell them not to give up on their own. WE DO have great African-American men who love us and want to marry us. Those that don’t we don’t need to waste our time with!

    • Edmond says:

      Peace be onto you,
      I’m not sure about what you are saying for the fact that we have 2 issues here, possibly 3. I am a first generation AA man and I am a muslim but my understanding leads me to believe that it is halal to select a wife from the Ummah, whether it is Senegal,Bosnia, Egypt or wherever. Discrimination on the basis of race is Haraam needless to say I cant speak for others but I find the North African woman to be my aesthetic preference aside from her being a religious essential. I see nothing wrong with a man determining the feminine qualities that appeal to him. Long flowing hair is attractive to me. I’ve faced it unapologetically. Their eyes and acute features are foxlike. In addition to that I have always determined in my mind that I could only marry a woman with ethnic ties. The African American woman is wonderful but she is boring and common to me. Similarly to the way that I rarely enjoy home cooked food as much as I do my favorite restaurant. Its a matter of taste and our community is global now. These shores are not the whole world and I feel folks can stay in the wilderness if they choose or explore other horizons. I’m getting my degree in poli sci and Arabic, Afterwards i’ll join the peace corp and guess where Al Maghreb, and InshAllah I will find a nice woman there to marry. There are millions of men in the world of all forms that our sisters should gladly accept if they qualify for them. I love my sisters, as sisters. My tastes and preferences will not be dictated by a sophistic mob. Guys like us won’t be missed if we take another route to happiness. There are so many men willing to marry you all. I feel you should only spend your time and concern with them. As far as self hatred I wouldn’t go that far. The type of self love that would be opposite is a sort of narcisism. I It’s an unfounded an specious argument. The fact is I find foreign women more compatible with all of my wants and needs

  19. HU Prof. says:

    Alhumdullillah!

    This is a fruitful discussion and more needs to be had on the subject.

    Quite frankly, I think we should begin to look for what is primarily Islamically sound in a person regardless of his/her race or ethnic background. That should be primary. Secondly, I think we need to be more serious about the process of selecting a mate, regardless of national origin; that is, we need to rethink and reinvest in the whole process of selecting a mate from a community perspective, especially the role of wali. Thirdly, we need to recognize and study (except where African Americans are concerned, at least for those among us who are the same) the cultural machinations of a particular group of people before we “blindly” jump into a “stranger marriage,” to use the initial blogger’s term. This is abundantly important, because all to often, some AA brothers may be selecting wives from other continents based on superficial reasons and a gross lack of knowledge of their cultural traditions that skirt, and in some cases, fully embrace kufr.

    Now, that being said, if we AA brothers invest in our sisters, at least we would know their cultural background, their history, because we share the same. We would not be making blind decisions, historically regarded. That does not mean to say that we should exclude other sisters from other parts of the world, because of the central mantra of Islam that purports that there is no race that is superior to another, and that the only discriminating factor between persons are their deeds. Some of us may forget this when we get caught up in that nationalistic, group-think, patriotic nonsense that is so prevasive today.

    As per my experience, most Arab and Arab-decended fathers do not want to marry their daughters to AA men for some of the same reasons that some AA men do not want to marry some AA women: stereotypes. Again, we need to begin to make well informed and Islamically sound decisions when choosing a spouse, not ones based on superfluous superficialities.

  20. […] then the brother who stood up and said the infamous state, Abdur Rahman, wrote a blog entry explaining his reason for the statement. It sends a loud and pernicious message to the world that […]

  21. Muhammad says:

    Don’t judge a book by it’s cover.
    Moroccan women – submissive ! – Some of them have man-controlling skills you could never imagine. And most of the rest know how to, but choose not to.

    Also bear in mind Morocco is ethnically mixed. I’m a Celt – we have a kind of parallel with Berbers. Some of my wife’s sisters are married to Sahrawis – who are of sub-saharan African descent. Some of the family could pass as Nigerian. My father in law (Arab) gets on with me and his black son in laws (who he spends much of his time with). Even though he was tortured by Europeans he totally accepts me as a Muslim. He can see past what a lot of people can’t.

    In Morocco, there is ignorance,like anywhere else, but divides are generally cultural and linguistic. My kids have no identity problems over there – they speak the language and no-one questions their Islam or their identity – unlike over here in England. My use of standard Arabic is met with – standard Arabic. Anyone with any education knows their dialect is a tough one and will do this – for me – as I am clearly not Moroccan (sometimes they think I’m Syrian). However my kids, looking quite Moroccan, prefer to speak dialect as other youngsters would annoy them and mock them (like they were giving the khutba).

    I think what you have here is quite an interesting parallel to the multi ethnic metropolitan life in the UK or the USA. Obviously the Islamic criteria are the most important. However I think these things I have seen from my own experience are of some consequence.

    The (very) real danger of marrying in Morocco is of opportunists using you for a passport. This does not mean they will look for a divorce as soon as they get their papers. If you provide a good standard of living , or even just more security that they were used to, they will settle for that. But they may well try to manipulate you over towards their preferred lifestyle. And there may be family members twisting her arm for various reasons.

    What is needed in marriage is facts, and caution. You are entitled to make enquiries about any family you may be marrying into. And they should be happy to let you do so.

  22. amal says:

    muhammad- that is exactly what i wanted to say , morrocon woman are cunning ! come to the uk and see the morrocon commuinty , their living in la la land !
    yeah they cook great , but they dont take crap from any man .

  23. Unlissted says:

    Who cares if the shoe is on the other foot……Plenty of sisters have been marrying white brothers…Why the hell are so obsessed about somebody’s priavte parts….Men and women can marry whoever they feel like….You need to go to Morocco Abdur rahman!!! Then maybe you’ll see why…..Rok yo world…….The problem is your world is still black and white after islam has set the pathway ….you have the methodology and same calls to jahliyah like the nation of islam……black dis …black dat…..you want to mix islam with being a ghetto tick…..check this out black man the prophet said:Who ever calls with the calls of jahileeyah then let him bite on the head of his father’s penis(adab mufrad) Go get some bread.akh….because you aint doing nothing but calling to jahiliyah…….You and that fool umarlee build a blog on black men marrying outside of their race…what type of knucklehead crap is that?…..Unlissted2007

  24. Hassan Ali says:

    The biggest problem our sisters have is US-their men!
    Black Americans are a defeated people in several ways.
    Women, being a creation that gravitates toward strength, must therefore be put off by the collective image of the Black Man in America.
    I say emphatically that our men, us, ME-we have to stand up as men in the light and spirit of the best of creation (saw) if we are to attain the respect of our women. Respect will fuel the deep, real love that will result in harmonious, LASTING realtionships.
    And ALLAH knows best!
    Masalaama,
    Hassan Ali

  25. Abdur-Rahman Muhammad says:

    Well Hassan, at least you have one comment I can fully agree with. Concerning some of your other comments, at least I can say you have a sense of humor, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

  26. isso says:

    After reading this subject on these linked blogs for the past week or so, it’s refreshing to see Muhammad’s (post Nº 21) perspective. His experience mirrors mine to an extent, save for the fact that I’m a black american while he’s of celtic descent.

    I can also understand where Unlissted is coming from. When I hear the phrase “our women”, my initial subconscious reaction translates that into “muslim women”. Are there injustices being done in the name of marriage? Undoubtedly. Marrying a woman based upon a stereotype is just as foolish as *not* marrying a woman based upon a stereotype.

    Again, good call Muhammad on advising brothers who intend to marry to do their homework and make enquiries.

  27. Mary Ann says:

    Asssalaam Alaikum

    I firmly believe that you can’t change what you don’t acknowledge. I believe that in order to do that, one must be honest, and sincere.

    So, I’ll start with myself. I’m an African American convert and my husband is from a West African Nation. All of the African American sisters I know ( college educated, vocational/trade skill sets) that have been married at least 5 years and are in stable situations are married to brothers from West, and East Africa. A few are married to North Africans. All of the African American sisters I’ve met who married black men outside of the Warith Deen Muhammad Muslim community are trapped in sick, self defeating cycle of serial marriage/divorce, and have developed very real psychiatric disorders as a result of abuse, poverty, and being in a constant state of transition.

    At the time I decided get married this is what I saw going on as a new convert to Islam. I get sick and tired of hearing that becuase I’m a black woman I’m automatically:

    Fat- I was size 10/12 the average black woman is a 12/14

    Ugly- I modeled as a teenager and converted when I was 18

    From a broken home- My parents are middle class and have been married for 28 years, I don’t know how in the hell that’s a broken
    home.

    Belligerent/ill mannered/ghetto- My parents financially sponsored our debutante activities.

    What I discovered was that for what ever reason, black men, and especially black Muslim men do not believe I’m worthy, and deserving. What mattered is that I believed I’m worthy and deserving. I got tired of all that negativity and so did many of the black sisters who came from similar backgrounds as I. All of us are now married to African men and there are struggles there to. I won’t deny it but it is nothing compared to the emotional, verbal, spiritual, and mental abuse that is being spat on black Muslim women, even by some in the clergy class.

    It feels dam good to be treated with respect and dignity; it feels dam good to be loved and needed; it feels dam good to have my goals and aspirations encouraged, promoted, and supported; and it feels dam good to be able to be myself.

    The complaints about black women being feminist is absurd. Anyone woman who feels that emotional, mental, verbal, physical, and financial abuse is the only path to marriage is mistaken, and I say to you, G-d is so much Greater than that, so much Merciful than that, so much Holier than that. It is against G-d’s law to be oppressed.
    If black men are looking for punching bags and holes in the wall, let them, run down the soul of some one else, but don’t you dare, settle for less, and don’t you dare allow anybody to tell you that aren’t worthy and deserving only G-d the one who created us can ever do so.

    Salaam

  28. Mary Ann says:

    To the original poster:

    I’ve never experienced so much treachery, cruelty, and ugliness from black men until I became Muslim.

    It’s the worst I’ve ever seen…

    Makes me want to run back to the church!

  29. HU Prof. says:

    I hope you are not serious about wanting to run back to the Church. No one should rest their deen on the interactions (however negative) with Black men–that’s a form of kufr.

  30. unlissted says:

    yeah aint nuthin back at the church but the pastor fornicationg with the evangelist and the priests molestering the little boys and no religion will be accepted but islam on the day of judgement

  31. asmarani says:

    MashaAllah, this is a great post and I’m happy it’s being discussed. One of the comments had to do with people using stereotypes in their assessments of marriage. Whenever someone is categorically preferring another ethnicity (other than their own) for marriage, there is almost always a romanticizing of “the other”. Unfortunately, when African American men are showing a categorical preference for women from Morocco, Egypt, Yemen, etc. they are assuming that all of these women are a certain way (usually more obedient, attractive, religious, etc.) and that African American women are by contrast, the opposite. This speaks to a larger issue of self hatred, and, as Brother Tariq wrote about in his blog, maybe even trying to pass. Also, some brothers may feel that by marrying an Arab woman or non African American woman that this gives them some currency or legitimacy in the Muslim community. This is very unfortunate. Allah swt has written whomever we will marry, yet there is no need to denigrate any group of people, and especially your own ethnicity to justify your decision. Let’s look at it from the perspective of these Moroccan women. How would you feel if your husband married you because of a stereotype? And what if you, as an individual, didn’t fit into whatever his perception was? What if you didn’t even know you were chosen because of this stereotype? How could one live up to that kind of standard?
    I am speaking partly from experience here. I am Eritrean and my ex-husband is African American. His first choice was a Yemeni woman but that didn’t work out so, I guess Eritrea was close enough. So, he would make comments about wanting to marry a woman from a Muslim family, making hijrah, etc. One time he mentioned to me, very matter of factly, that he “would never consider marrying an African American woman”,and then went into some ignorant reasons why. So, overlooking the fact that I grew up here and that most of my close girlfriends are African American he assumed that I would just agree with him. When I began arguing with him about how rude and self hating this line of reasoning was, he then countered that I wasn’t being a “good wife” and that he didn’t think I was like this. Oh, you mean having an opinion? My parents alhumdulillah, always had a very panAfrican perspective and made sure we grew up appreciating all ethnicities. My ex-husband used to speak with a fake Arabic sounding accent, and would identify himself as “mixed” because of some distant Native American and European ancestry, so there were definately some identity issues going on. Many of our disputes had to do with his impresssions of how I should be based on his skewed cultural and religious interpretations versus the person I actually am. This extended into accusing my family (the Muslim one he wanted to marry into) of bid’ah at every opportunity. When I would explain to him that yes, people in many Muslim countries do things that are misguided, (worshiping at graves is a common practice) it is because of ignorance, not disobedience. Many people around the world have varying levels of literacy, understanding, and of the Muslims, they are worshiping Allah swt to the best of their ability. Many Muslims around the world do not have the luxury like we do to peruse Islamic websites and blogs ro read fatwas onlines and go onto discussion boards, they are busy collecting water, firewood, feeding their families, living a substinent lifestyle because of global poverty. Yet, so many of us in the West are quick to label them for “bidah”, “being Sufis” or some other trite statement. I guess he (and others like him) had this fantasy of marrying into a family of shyoukh and his wife being super obedient, beautiful, etc. but never looked at himself. What does he bring to the table? What kind of work has he done on himself? Could you and other brothers like you be part of the reason that the African American sisters are “angry” or “have an attitude”? Nothing about culture exists in a vacuum and these are all questions we should be asking ourselves, let’s move past the pretenses. Get to know people for who they authentically are within halal parameters. Yes, culture is real and important, but it’s not everything; to base a marriage on this level of superficiality is short sighted.

  32. Abdur-Rahman Muhammad says:

    As Salaamu Alaikum Sister Asmarani,

    That was so very well said that I suggest you fire up your own blog. I would definitely like to read more. And I’m not just saying that because you agreed with (smile).

  33. Abdulla says:

    Sister Asmarani

    EXCELLENT comments. Sounds like your ex (with the self hate issues about his own ethnicity and other things) was a salafist

  34. sacrosanct says:

    A real man does not have to bully his womenfolk (or anyone else under his care) to be respected by them.

    amen

  35. […] perspective as a Muslim in the South but from looking at the various communities throughout the US, the whole “Moroccan wife” thing is very rare in the South.  I only know of one sister who’s son is married to a Moroccan.  But every African-American […]

  36. Unlissted says:

    Abdulla it’s sounds like your jealous of the men who go to Morocco?….What’s ethnicity.?…fried chicken???? you sound like your still tied to jahileeyah…..hatin on brothers who dont want to marry women from the states….It’s there choice???? Who said you decide what a muslim does with his private parts??????? Asmarani go see the imam if about marital problems not a porta potty blog …like this ..

  37. Mrs. Sajdah Sabree-Jordan says:

    Unlisted do you read the Quran? Allah says that any who believe in God and the last day on him shall be no fear nor shall they grieve. Also Allah mentions Christians as people of the book who will be blessed with the paradise based on their deeds. And where did you get that perverted Hadith from about biting the father’s pennis? Where can you verify such a thing with the Quran?

    You are soooooooooooo very ignorant when it comes to issues of African-Americans you obviously know nothing about Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. We as a people practice a form of self-hatred that is rarely ever seen in other ethnic groups. You mock my
    African-American culture as nothing more than fried chicken. You are sick and tired. Only a WEAK Black man would prefer another woman to his own. I f you look around the world most people love their own and cherish their culture and traditions. People who don’t have a problem, point blank. Also you keep talking about private parts; for your information marriage is more than sexual intercourse. And for the record I was born and raised in the Nation of Islam, until 1975 ( When Imam Mohammed took over) and proud of it. Were it not for Allah blessing the NOI to introduce Islamic practices to America who knows where we would be. Were it not for the Hon. Elijah Muhamad we would not have a Malcolm X nor a Muhammad Ali.

    I thank Allah every day that my man is a strong Black man with his own business who is doing very well. I thank Allah that he honors me, loves me, aned protects me. He is the proof that man cannot control the universe. I was told many times when I was looking for a mate that I would never find such a man in my own ethnic group and that I should look elsewhere. But I had faith that Allah would send such a man for me and my faith paid off.

    • Edmond says:

      “only a weak black man”, news flash ‘ a woman is a woman’, men like women, so men marry women. everything else is based on preference. and congratulations that you found the husband YOU wanted. see how it works?….follow the logos

  38. […] There are of course other ways to delude oneself into believing that one is no longer a Blackamerican, but perhaps one of the more pernicious ways involves turning away from Blackamerican women in search of “real” Muslim women from other country’s. It seems that Morocco is the hot destination for wives these days. This is of course not to over generalize or indict any specific person or couple, but only to highlight the frightful impact the phenomenon is having on the Blackamerican Muslimah’s prospects for finding a husband (see what I said about this issue here). […]

    • Edmond says:

      Black Muslimahs can get passports too and go anywhere they want. There are 6,000,000,000 people in the world. you people are talking like folks stuck in antiquity. Our sisters are not chained to the shores.

  39. Dave says:

    A bunch of manginas and simps here!

    Look,a man is not a self hater or weak just because he gets a non-black woman. It’s his business, also the children of such unions will still be BLACK,so therefore the race will continue.

    Many women should stop trying to shack up with irresponsible men that are loosers. Years later after being abused and chucked away by Abdullah the thug and many other of his ilk, the AA women look for the good,hardworking, and educated brothers that they ignored at first because he didn’t have “game”, 20’s on his car, and a cool click with lots of street cred. You know the brothers that didn’t “keep it real” enough.

    Yes, black women are beautiful…just a beautiful as any other race of women, but there are other options of black women than the Americanized ones.

    • Edmond says:

      well said, people forget black is not an ethnicity. I know Igbos that won’t marry Hausas is that self hate? Its laughable this rhetoric is

  40. gassus says:

    I do not understand how this is important to Muslims. Who someone marries is their business. I want Muslims to have good marriages…period. Racial purity is for Nazi’s. As products of slavery we are not pure anything, the blackest of us are 20% white. Marry good Muslims and leave this garbage.

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  42. mujaheed alkhalifa says:

    too much american and wertern thoughts

    i’m out of this

    asalamu aleikum ya ahlu kittaabi wa sunnah

  43. Daud says:

    RE Mrs. Sajdah Sabree-Jordan:

    This post is filled with evil and extremism because it is grossly negligent and the sister spoke without knowledge, and Allaah said this is from the shaytaan:

    2:169 [Shaitân (Satan)] commands you only what is evil and Fahshâ (sinful), and that you should say against Allâh what you know not.

    She said: “Unlisted do you read the Quran? Allah says that any who believe in God and the last day on him shall be no fear nor shall they grieve. Also Allah mentions Christians as people of the book who will be blessed with the paradise based on their deeds.”

    She is alluding to this Ayah,

    2:62 Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allâh and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve .

    The Tafsir of the Ayah, which she could not have read states that one of the Sahabah asked the Messenger (salallaahu alayhi wa salam) what happened to the good the people did before he received his Messege, then Allaah sent down the above verse. He then sent the following Ayah which abrogated the one that preceded it;

    3:85 And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.

    ALL Christians are going to the Hell-Fire forever, because of the shirk they commit with Allaah.

    YOU CAN’T JUST MAKE YOUR OWN EXPLANATION OF THE AYAAT, PARTICULARLY IN A LANGUAGE OTHER THAN ARABIC.

    She needs to make Tawbah because denying the kufr of the disbelievers is an act of disbelief as well.

  44. عبدالكريم الربنسوني says:

    [quote]What if the shoe were on the other foot? What if African American Muslimahs decided that we were no longer worthy of them, purchased expensive flights half way round the world, only to return with an Arab Muslim husband[/quote]
    This would be very excellent, i believe. The more the non-arabs assimilate into islamic culture the better for the ummah so that we can be raised up on a good aqeedah and manhaaj. This will take the constraints of the corrupted kuffar manhaaj off of the ummat. This would benefit the sisters from america and the ummat as a whole to acculturize into islamic khuluq(culture). I support this because a male convert will not be too much benefit to the sister since he will have baggage of jahiliyah and will be trying to shake it off himself.

  45. عبدالكريم الربنسوني says:

    [quote]the very existence of the African American Muslim as a separate and distinct ethnic group[/quote]
    this is not good for the new muslims. islaam is a favor from allah which stipulates that kufr and jahiliyyah must be suppressed. The majority of muslims in morocco did not hold on to a berber ethnic i.d. , neither for egyptians to a qibti i.d., nor sudanese to a nubian i.d., nor shami people to a roman byzantine i.d.
    ethnic i.d. or race i.d. is a dunya thing and can be changed like a brand new car. muslims have to concentrate on trying to emulate the prophets’s (alahi salaam) akhlaaq.

  46. عبدالكريم الربنسوني says:

    [quote]At some point (and hopefully soon) we’ll wake up and realize that the work of reforming, teaching, and molding the lives of our Black Muslim women into a model of refinement, piety, and Islamic elegance, is the work of Islam.[/quote]
    this is not true for allah mentions the effort of refinement is through the effort of the person by allah’s permission. This is her effort and her reward is with allah alhamdullilah. when she reaches this state of reform it would have been by her sweart and tears for this is taken from no other than the saying of allah that he will not change the condition of a person until they change what is in themselves. This is very difficult especially from people who had their fitrah changed for 20,30, even 40 yrs. islaam is not a home remedy. it is a shafaa as said in allah’s book but just like shafaa the cure comes by one’s effort of tadaw’a(seeking medication)and allah’s permission.

  47. عبدالكريم الربنسوني says:

    this is a non-sequitor for what if i went off of teh advise of the messenger of allah(alahi salaam) then i would have the stereotype of quraishi women for he said:

    حدثنا ‏ ‏ابن أبي عمر ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏سفيان بن عيينة ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي الزناد ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الأعرج ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي هريرة ‏ ‏ح ‏ ‏وعن ‏ ‏ابن طاوس ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبيه ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي هريرة ‏ ‏قال ‏
    ‏قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏خير نساء ركبن الإبل ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏أحدهما صالح نساء ‏ ‏قريش ‏ ‏و قال ‏ ‏الآخر نساء ‏ ‏قريش ‏ ‏أحناه على يتيم في صغره وأرعاه على زوج في ذات يده
    Good amongst the women are those who ride camels. One of them said: They are pious women of the Quraish, and the other one said: The women of the Quraish are kind to the orphans in their childhood and look after the wealth of their spouses. ‏

    if i wanted to seek only quraishi women would i be wrong because i am going off of a stereotype(authu billah ) he spoke from wahy.

  48. عبدالكريم الربنسوني says:

    <>Also Allah mentions Christians as people of the book who will be blessed with the paradise based on their deeds.”,<>
    حدثني ‏ ‏يونس بن عبد الأعلى ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏ابن وهب ‏ ‏قال وأخبرني ‏ ‏عمرو ‏ ‏أن ‏ ‏أبا يونس ‏ ‏حدثه عن ‏ ‏أبي هريرة ‏
    ‏عن رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏أنه قال والذي نفس ‏ ‏محمد ‏ ‏بيده ‏ ‏لا يسمع بي أحد من هذه الأمة
    يهودي ولا نصراني ثم يموت ولم يؤمن بالذي أرسلت به إلا كان من أصحاب النار ‏
    It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: By Him in Whose hand is the life of Muhammad, he who amongst the community of Jews or Christians hears about me, but does not affirm his belief in that with which I have been sent and dies in this state (of disbelief), he shall be but one of the denizens of Hell-Fire

  49. Fazeel says:

    All kinds of Muslims in America are faced with the difficult challenge of marriage. I am a man of Indian / Pakistani descent. Many of the points in the article ring true. Both men and Muslim women in America complain that it’s difficult to find a good mate. In 2005 I wrote an article “Muslims Not Married in America”… http://www.chowk.com/articles/9312… and I’m still searching : o )
    The reasons are many. Some are listed in the article. Others are listed on my website:
    http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/sweets/writings/50corporate.htm

    There are at least 80 reasons why it’s difficult. Another article I wrote on the subject is “The Purpose of Marraige” http://www.pakistanlink.com/Opinion/2003/Jan/24/10.html

    Some women don’t like to hear these things. But if you need feedback from one of the Muslim brothers in America, the above are some troublesome experiences. I think African American Muslim women come with less baggage, than Pakistani American Muslim women. Because for the immigrant muslim women whose mothers were submissive in other male dominated cultures, today there is a lot of power, the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, and … power corrupts. Puts a person too much in their ego. And there is a principle:
    Ego kills relationship

  50. Second Hand says:

    hey man, great blog!

  51. […] widespread that another Sunni Black man blogger felt the need to address that behavior pattern in this post. Then there are the Black male wife-beaters who are attracted to Islam because they like what they […]

  52. Aaliyah says:

    African american sisters are beautiul im not african american. Screw them go marry REAL african black men and they can go and marry real muslim women. u see both those notions are stupid but stop feeling sorry for urself go and marry a non black or real african brothers yourselfs what is stopping you.

  53. Muslim says:

    As Salaamu Alaykum, I would like to say that we need to stop being “so” black and start being more “Muslim” I did not choose the color of my skin or the land In which I was born. But after Allaah’s guidance for what He choose for me and all of mankind. I choose to summit. I choose Islam.

  54. Ahmed says:

    I was a member of the NOI. I am thankful for nothing regarding it. We worshiped a man, not Allah swt. I am Salafee. I marry whom I please. Women are not holy. I married an African American woman, a Morrocan. I am not confused, I don’t hate myself. I am African American and now married to a wonderful, beautiful Algerian who fears Allah the best she can. Allah set truly blessed me. Give me a break with all this pseudo intelligence. We have been married for over ten years and it is the best years of my life. I have never known such happiness. Before we married she asked me a funny question? Don’t black men beat there wives? I laughed. I asked her do Algerian men beat there wives? I went to Oran to marry her. I heard a man beating the craps out of his wife. The rule there is “no blood, no police”. In all this time I have never hit or raised my voice to her. I refuse to make her cry. Not confused, not self hate. Just love my wife Allah swt.blessed me with. Trying to please Allah swt. Move on brothers and sisters. Masalama.

    • Anonymous says:

      I believe that women in americ,african american women have to knuckle down and be humbke and admit where she needs the most repair, here is what she did, black ppl in america have long followed whites in that we were taught to hate ourselves….the black man filkowed the white man and the bkavk woman followed the white woman,,, what happened was the white woman turned on the white man and demanded independence in the 1970s and the bkack.woman followed her….. not realisung the white was in a position to demand independence,,even tho its not good to be independent in any situation, her husband was an engineer, a doctor, a lawyer a business owner,,, while the black.womans husband was barely washing dishes at a restaurant , or had a carwash job…SJE WAS IN NO POSITION TO.DEMAND INDEPENDENCE FROM HER HUSBAND….and to this very day black women quote more than.any woman: IM INDEPENDENT. INDEPENDENT…. I DONT NEED NO MAN…well the truth is u were.in.no position to turn your man away, and now your daughters have followed this and your sons have turned away from obedience to.you….. black women have to fess up and face where she went wrong…… there r plenty of good brothers here in the states that work good jobs and took care of african american women, but these women were defiant, and rebellious, and controlling, nit giving him his rights….. as a man,,, and im sorry, but after a turbulent situation and dealing with the way these sisters ring a black man through the courts I advise my son ti stay away from a black woman with that tyoe of mentality,, and to seek a woman with woman qualities….its too much to try hard to take care of these women and they destroy everythimg in a matter of months…..ir best bet is to find a morrocan or a pakistani or an asian….sorry. ut we r tired of that mouth….it has to stop…. when they stop with that mouth and cursing and yelling then.men will react in a good way

  55. Dawud says:

    8 years later I see that Morocco is the solution. EVERY black american muslim I’ve seen married to a moroccan woman is happy.

  56. Wow! This discussion is hot! I will share what I have observed about this situation: first of all as an African American Muslimah who is fluent in Arabic I have gotten to know many Morroccan, Egyptian Sudani and other women from a more inside perspective woman to woman. You talk about the African American man being satisfied and pleased with his Arab/North African wife, but question:: Is the wife pleased with the husband? .Whenever I meet these sisters, and I start speaking to them in Arabic, they IMMEDIATELY want to discuss their problems and misunderstandings about their American husbands. You would be surprised about complaints they have. I will give you some quick examples: If she is the second, she is complaining to me about the first. One Jordanian sister complained to me that her husband sent her on a vacation to visit her family and while she was away, he married another sister (surprisingly an African-American). I have also a Sudani and Jordanian friends who complained that they were both first wives and the husband took American wives as seconds; in both cases the American wife was allowed to ‘run the show’ and the Arab/African wife became estranged from the husband. Some of you all talk that ‘bubba’ stuff but when it gets down to it, you long for somebody who understands your culture so you can chill and talk about ‘Old School’ stuff. That’s what Ive seen too. The other issue many of the sisters complain about, if the woman is actually religious, she complains about her husband’s weaknesses in his deen. She also complains about his children from jaahiliya and her having to cooperate with his ex-girlfriends’/baby mamas. Another complaint is that some of you brothers marry these women, take them away from their families/countries and never let them return! Some of them have gone 8 – 10 years without seeing their families and without their families even meeting their children. Make no mistake, their families are angry with you! Lastly I’ll mention is that many of the brothers say they want an Arab woman so they can learn Arabic but most actually force her to learn English. In many cases, she also starts speaking English to the children and, I know this because I have had to teach Arabic to some of your children. Its really shameful. So I say, yeah you are free to marry who you want but be clear on what your intentions are It is very unfortunate but in 23 years of being Muslim and 10 years living in 4 Middle Eastern countries, Moroccan women by far have the worst reputation for having tricks up their sleeves to control men…and co-wives if need be. They are tremendous actresses. If you have no hopes of practicing polygyny, and you are ready to share ALL that you have with her and have no regrets later, then marry her she will make you the happiest man alive, but …will she be happy with you?

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