Transcript of Royer Testimony and Clarification

Posted: April 13, 2008 in Uncategorized
Tags: ,

Below I have the actual transcript of the sworn testimony of Randall “Ismail” (I am sorry about the previous misspelling of his name) Royer in a secret Grand Jury against Ali Al-Timimi.

I want to make a point few points here.

1 – I am not saying that Ismail is a bad man for testifying – to the contrary. I fully support what Ismail Royer did (in testifying) and his wife and 4 children (and Parents) should not be ashamed as he did the right thing in doing that. He should feel no need to explain himself. Ali Al-Timimi was wrong and had I known at the time that Al-Timimi supported the vicious 9/11 attacks, I would not have supported him in his trial.

2 -I want to illustrate that when you plead with the government, you are required to testify. This is what Ismail and so many others have done as part of their agreement. What makes Sami Al-Arian different and special? Why is he being coddled by the Muslim organizations and the black Imams being brought to “demand” his release? Why are they supporting an UNISLAMIC hunger strike? My point is that we are being used as pawns in a political game

3 – To show that I am not making these things up as some are claiming. I reiterate that Ismail did the right thing (while Sami is not)

4 – That it is time that we stop blindly defending people and making emotional “demands”. We must begin to speak out and work to remove the radical elements of our community.

The full transcript is here [.pdf] and I have excerpted the important parts below. Emphasis is mine

Q. And you’re obviously looking for a Rule 35 that would reduce your sentence for cooperation?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Okay. And your obligation under your plea agreement on how to testify is you have to testify truthfully, right?

A. Yes, that’s correct.

[snip]

Q. Okay. I’d like to direct your attention to September 16th, 2001. On that date, did you attend a gathering at Yong Kwonls house?

A. Yes, I did

[snip]

Q. What was your understanding of the purpose of that meeting?

A. Sheikh Ali Timimi was going to give us his, his view of the September 11th attacks and what the

response of Muslims in the United States should be now.

[snip]

Q. How open were the, the attendees at the meeting to being overheard or seen at the meeting?

A. It was a secretive meeting, so we closed the blinds, turned off the cell phones.

Q. Why were those steps taken, the closing the blinds and turning off the cell phones?

A. Ali Timimi asked us to do that.

Q. What was said at the beginning of the meeting with respect to whether what was said at the

meeting should be repeated outside the meeting?

A. Ali Timimi asked us not to repeat what was said at the meeting.

[snip]

Q. How did he begin his talk?

A. Well, he began by, by – -we had an, an Arabic printout of the fatwa or religious opinion from

Sheikh A1 Uqla (ph.), a scholar from Saudi Arabia, in which the scholar approved of the 9/11 attacks and said that, that there would be a — essentially there would wind up being a war between the United States and – – the United States would invade Afghanistan and the — it was beneficial as a – – it was a positive thing for Muslims to go and help the Taliban defend against the U.S. invasion.

[snip]

Q. Okay. What if anything did Timimi say A1 Uqla said Muslims around the world should do when the

U.S. invaded Afghanistan?

A. Well, as I said, he, he, he said that it would be a good deed to go and help the – – defend the Taliban.

[snip]

Q. What did Timimi send – – say then?

A. Well, then he said that, you know, now, now would be the time whether — where we would find out

whether or not the Taliban were, were, were good or, or, or not good, and if they were good they would hold on to Usama bin Laden and wouldn’t turn him over as the United States was demanding, and that if, if they were in fact not really very worthy then they would hand him over.

[snip]

Q. So, on the basis of what he told you what did you understand Timimi to be advising you and the others gathered at Kwonrs house to do?

A. Well, I understood him to be, to be, you know, implying that, you know, in pretty clear terms that, that it would be beneficial for us to go and help them — help the Taliban.

Again, there was nothing wrong with what Ismail did in giving this testimony. So I ask again, what is Sami Al-Arian’s point?

What is your response now Amad? How many brothers like this will throw their lives away after being given stupid advice by these “sheikhs”?

Comments
  1. kameelah says:

    and where is the Muslim Brotherhood document you mentioned?

  2. Kameelah

    The MB document I provided is in the original Arabic. The English translation begins on page 16

  3. kameelah says:

    that link is broken. can you provide a working link?

  4. Vince P says:

    It’s easily found on-line. Enter this into google:

    muslim brotherhood the project

  5. LG says:

    Is this the basis on which Tamimi is jailed for life? I don’t think Tamimi’s words implied that it was beneficial to go to Afghanistan and fight the US.

    All the evidence suggests that Tamimi was a moderate Muslim before 9/11 and quite against terrorism and violence (all the evidence presented against him are from after 9/11).

    Anyways, there is no evidence that Sami Al-Arian is a radical element. What is radical to you? Anybody who holds an opinion against US or Israel?

  6. LG

    The point is that Al-Arian is obliged to testify as others have done.

    A person that believes that 9/11 was good and encourages youth to fight their own country is radical.

    Sami Al-Arian used to praise suicide murders in Israel

  7. LG says:

    Abdur-Rahman,

    First of all, Al-Arian himself has declared that he is against the killing of innocent civilians everywhere (as he says it in the documentary “US vs Al-Arian” as well). Isn’t this enough testimony to the false accusation against him that he supports terrorism.

    Secondly, Israel is not our country. Why does the US have to take a side in the conflict between Israel and Palestine? Israel has no strategic use for the US. In fact Israel is a strategic burden on the US let alone getting billions of dollars every year. The US will never prosecute someone who supports the mass murder of Palestinians. The US will never prosecute the mass IDF generals who are mass terrorists (a terrorism that is 20 times more lethal than the Palestinian terrorism). So why the double standards?

    Even if Sami Al-Arian praises the suicide bombers in Israel, what happened to the first amendment rights? Does he, as a legal citizen of this country, have the right to praise whoever he wants and make his opinion heard on any issue including suicide bombings? What law prohibits a man from praising suicide bombing?

    I whole-heartedly agree that the true radical elements in our communities have to be put in their place by the Muslim community (of any ethnicity or background) but I disagree that Al-Arian is of this group. I even think that Tamimi deserves some credit for his advice. Note that he does not encourage killing of US citizens in the US (that would have been much easier than going to Afghanisan and fighting the US military). And this is assuming that Tamimi did encourage the youth to go to Afghanistan and fight the US military. If he was a terrorist as we are asked to believe, he would have encourage the youth to strike America where it hurts the most that is inside the US.

  8. Vince P says:

    Anytime a Muslim uses the formulation First of all, Al-Arian himself has declared that he is against the killing of innocent civilians alarm bells should go off.

    What is innocence? Who decides? Is Innocence being used in a Western sense or an Islamic sense?

    Why even qualify the prohibition with the word “innocent”.. are you saying it’s ok to kill “guilty” civilians?

  9. amad says:

    Abdur Rahman, since you called me out, I have only thing to say: I am spending my energies and my limited time on exposing the Islamophobes, and fighting Islamophobia. Instead of aiding and abetting those who are spreading it, as you (I would like to believe inadvertently) are doing.

    “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other” [Quran 48:29]

  10. Concerned Brother says:

    Another thing to keep in mind when discussing these types of issues is that some people also fall into the trap of scapegoating certain people and laying the blame on their doorstep.

    To explain… Br. Royer here in no way was the solitary cause of Mr. Tamimi’s imprisonment, and anyone that thinks that is not only deluded and ignorant, but is also in complete and utter denial of the facts of the case. First of all, Mr. Tamimi and others, did some very irresponsible things, which included both actions and statements (and this goes for Royer as well, which led to his own imprisonment, but that is another discussion). In other words, there is actually something here for the prosecution to work with, legitimate and real things, not made up, and not imaginary. That is #1…

    Secondly, in any case of this nature there are tons of witnesses, thousands of documents, a whole slew of files, wiretaps, pictures, audio and video files (some publicly obtained, others through court order, etc.). Point is, Br. Royer (and this also goes for anyone that is somehow drawn into a case against their will, or by necessity) did not bring Mr. Tamimi down. It was a culmination effect. No one piece of evidence and no one person brought this cause to its conclusion, but rather all of the aforementioned pieces of evidence and the countless witnesses that were brought forth. Yes, there can be a legitimate discussion of whether or not someone should or should not get involved (and some don’t even have the choice!), but the bottom line remains that one solitary person didn’t do the damage. People need to put things in their proper perspective and look at these cases as a whole. Sure, I am certain that some people have written Mr. Royer off because of what he said, but I honestly think that those people are blinded by the fact that they haven’t taken the time to acquaint themselves with the case as a whole. That, in addition to taking some time to reflect on what they would honestly do if they were facing LIFE in prison, with the prospect of never seeing ones wife and kids again (or at least not for a very, very long time). Kind of makes people look at the world a little different.

    One final point here: Why is it that whenever these types of things are brought up (“Why did so-and-so testify, that traitor!”) there is never mention of the OTHER witnesses and documents, with all the focus placed on that one individual, while turing a completely blind eye to the others involved in the case (who sometimes gave far more damaging and vicious testimony than the “brother” in question)? And why is there never mention of what the *defendants* themselves actually did and or said that was wrong to begin with? Why is it that Muslims are somehow automatically immune from guilt when brought before a court of law (“innocent until proven guilty” aside, we all know and respect that)? Couldn’t it be the case that they actually might have done something stupid, if not downright unacceptable and illegal (even in Islam)? Why is it always the witness that is evil and wrong? Makes you wonder if there are preconceived notions and biased beliefs in play that are brought to the table before looking at things with a calm mind, a clear heart, and a nice dose of some common sense.

    Some food for thought for thinking minds and cognizant hearts.

  11. @ LG

    With these people “innocent civilians” = Palestinians. This is why we also find Dr Al-Arian praising the suicide murders and they find no contradiction in it. They do not see any Israeli (or American) as “innocent”. This is why you will never hear them condemn Hamas or “Islamic Jihad” by name.

    @ Amad,

    Brother, I think that you are the one that called me out in your post by linking to me. Are we not to stand for justice no matter what? Are we not to stand against terrorism and those who are poisoning the minds of our youth?

  12. @ Concerned Brother

    Let me be clear again. I am NOT saying that Mr Royer alone is responsible for Al-Timimi’s imprisonment. I am only making the point that he testified as per the terms of his agreement with the gov’t. Mr. Al-Arian is NOT doing what he agreed to do. This is why we can not blindly shill for him. He decided not to honor his contract, so he is paying the consequences himself

    In short, I agree with your comments 100%

  13. hamid says:

    Can you please gurantee me that you not getting information and your tips from islamophobes? for god’s sake, Littlegreenfootballs linked to you!

    why dont you ask ismael royer father who reply to you in other post.

    You think u can prove guilt of sami arian when jury threw out all the charges against him.

    You need to stop smoking whatever you are on!

  14. JT says:

    Br. Hamid, Sami Al-Arian pleaded guilty and agreed to the charges

  15. hamid says:

    Agreed to the charges? What are you smoking?
    Have you seen the video??

    see this page http://www.freesamialarian.com/home.htm

    Al-Arian’s Federal District Court trial in Tampa commenced in June, 2005. The six-month trial featured more than 80 witnesses and 400 transcripts of intercepted phone conversations and faxes. At the end of the prosecution’s case, Al-Arian’s attorneys rested without offering a defense. On December 6, 2005, after 13 days of deliberations, the jury acquitted him on eight of 17 counts, while remaining deadlocked 10-2 in favor of acquittal on the other nine. Of fifty-one charges against the four men, not one resulted in a conviction.

  16. Vince P

    No, that’s not the document I have posted here! I stand by the document I’ve posted!

  17. JT says:

    Hamid

    He pleaded guilty to a charge which included agreeing to testify. You are leaving that part out

  18. Salafee Method says:

    The ulamaa have long warned against the evil of the ikwanul muslimeen (Muslim Brotherhood) and their nefarious plots to destroy the dawatul salafiyyah. Ali Al-Timimi was effected by this dawah and left the safety of the ulamaa and he ended up being imprisoned for it.

  19. Vince P says:

    Abdur-Rahman Muhammad:

    My mistake. I saw the words MB and English translation starting on page 16 and I assumed you meant the The Project thing because coincidently, the English translation for that PDF is also starting on page 16 and I thought the MB meant the Brotherhood.

    Sorry for the error.

  20. Abu abdullah says:

    Assalaamu Alaikum, Akhie I don’t care what those Transcripts say they could have been embellished. The brother is serving a 20 year sentence and also he did not testify against ALi Timimi at court. If he said those statements at the Grand Jury why did’nt he testify against Ali at Court. It was Mahmoud, Young Kwon and Ataig that testify against Ali. Also they were offering Ismail 1 or 2 years if Testified against ALi. Brother you need to speak with ALi Timimi himself about this issue or other people that were involved in this case. The brother did not testify against Ali Timimi thats why he is serving a 20 year sentence. You know the Ayah in Suratul Hujarat: 49:6] O you who believe, if a wicked person brings any news to you, you shall first investigate, lest you commit injustice towards some people, out of ignorance, then become sorry and remorseful for what you have done. Akhie you have slander this brother, He did not Testify against Ali Timimi and also none of his word but ALi Timimi in Jail. As I stated in my earlier blog that I was aquitted from this case, so of course I know more about things then people just standing on the side. You need to recant your statements and Fear Allah. This is a Serious matter. Allah knows best Assalaamu Alaikum warahmahtullahi wabarakatuhu.

  21. Abu abdullah says:

    Assalaamu Alaikum, ALso Ismail Royer plea deal DIDNOT require him to testify against anybody thats why he took it . He was facing 125 years in Prison. You need to search google and fine his Plea agreement with the government. You should of done this before you posted this false information on your blog. I’m very disappointed in you Akhie subhanallah…. Assalaamu Alaikum

  22. Abu abdullah says:

    Assalaamu Alaikum,
    Salafee Method : Akhie ALi Timimi was very far from the ikwanul muslimeen (Muslim Brotherhood). Did you ever ask him if was Ikwannie or you just backbit him giving him your good deeds. Some of you all are famous for that. Unfortunately you bropthers will see who was upon the truth in the End. Assalaamu Alaikum warahmahtullah

  23. Jamil says:

    Abu Abdullah

    Did you actually read what Abdur-Rahman said about Ismail above? Also look at what “Concerned Brother” said.

  24. “Littlegreenfootballs linked to you!”

    Perhaps they buy into Abdur-Rahman Muhammad’s agenda. That does not mean that Abdur-Rahman Muhammad buys into their agenda.

    LGF does not enjoy the best of reputations among infidel bloggers, and a person should not be condemned because of who quotes his work.

    By the way, the Taliban were somewhat displeased with bin Laden at the time of 9/11. However, it is a trait of the cultures of the various peoples in Afghanistan, including the Pushtun (the primary ethnic group of the Taliban), that they honor guests in their country, mostly regardless of their circumstances, and offer them protection. This is not unconditional, though; the Taliban asked to see Washington’s evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.

    In the US, there has been a great deal of hysteria regarding the attacks, and there was not at first much questioning of the government’s version of events. It was only overseas that people saw the attacks on TV and knew right away that something more was happening than what we were being led to believe.

    Of course, anyone who talks like this is accused of being a conspiracy kook, but it was FBI Director Mueller who officially referred to the perpetration of the 9/11 attacks as a conspiracy:

    http://stopislamicconquest.blogspot.com/2007/12/begins-with-c.html

  25. Vince P says:

    Al Qaeda had a unstable relationship with the Taliban throughout the 90s and the Taliban was close to expelling them a few times.

    But then Bill Clinton sent Tomahawk missiles into Afghanistan in retalilation for the US Embassy bombings in Africa.

    The result of that attack put an end to any hope that the Taliban would kick AQ out. That attack sealed the Taliban+AQ alliance and directly led to the 9/11 plot.

  26. Salafee Method says:

    Ali Tamimi called to the dawah of Safar and Salmaan

  27. Sister Seeking says:

    My, my, my…

    @ Vince P and Kameela

    I’m interested in hearing your conclusions after you have researched.

    Salaam
    Sister Seeking

  28. Those Tomahawk missiles are — what? — $1 million each? And how many did we shoot in to destroy a camp of mud and brick buildings?

  29. Vince P says:

    Hi Sister. I don’t understand your message to me.

    Thanks
    Vince

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