One Word on CNN’s “Black in America”: MORALITY!

Posted: July 29, 2008 in Uncategorized

As everyone very well knows by now, I detest political correctness and spin, and that’s my biggest problem with this Black in America piece. No one, not even a religious leader like T.D. Jakes, had the guts or the courage to discuss what the real problem is in the Black community; a complete absence of any sense of shame or morality! That’s right, that old fashioned word, MORALITY.

The common expression one most hears in the neighborhood now-a-days is “there’s no shame in my game”, which is precisely the problem, there is no shame in these people! What kind of person discusses on national television the most personal details of their sex life, like the eighteen year-old mother who goes to the doctor to get an AIDS test. Doesn’t she realize that the small child on her arm will grow up one day and watch this spectacle on tape. Of course she doesn’t, the girl has no shame whatsoever, because if she did she wouldn’t be sleeping around like she’s obviously been doing since an early age, especially with people she herself believes could infect her with HIV. I’m sorry (really I’m not) these people are bereft of anything even resembling a moral code.

Again, what kind a person allows a camera to document his own trifling behavior in not visiting his baby daughter or paying his child support? And what kind of women, like the daughter’s mother, moves from man to man to man making babies all along the way. I’ll tell you what kind; an immoral one who doesn’t really care about or respect herself. After her baby girl’s father ran out on her, she turned right back around and got pregnant with TWINS from another trifling Negro.

And what about the AIDS epidemic among “Black women”. It used to be that AIDS and HIV were talked about as a gay disease, now we are supposed to believe that Black Women are the problem! I’m not saying that there is no AIDS crisis in the Black community, only that the gutless, cowardly Black leaders (even the preachers) won’t go anywhere near discussing exactly HOW these Black women got the disease. No one can tell me that its all, or even mostly, intravenous drug use. We all know how it happens, but no one will dare say that its all those Black men released from prison who’ve engaged in HOMOSEXUAL SEX who infect these women. Its easy to point to BLACK WOMEN (however immoral some of their behavior may be) as the scourge because they’re the most powerless segment of American society. But start looking at the other end of the equation, those so-called “down low” switch-hitters- HOMOSEXUALS- and you’ve got serious political problems because the “gay” lobby is affluent and powerful in this country.

I know it sounds elitist to some, but unless we begin to inculcate a sense of morality and shame in depressed areas of the Black community, this appalling state of affairs will continue to be with us. Let’s just be honest here, the people are living an animal-like existence, uncivilized and uncouth. Is anyone going to tell me otherwise? There really is “no shame in their game”. 

I’m calling for the reinstatement of the stigma on un-wed motherhood. Damn it, Its time for some righteous indignation and a show of outrage! What we’re seeing is down right disgusting. There must be a deep and profound sense of right and wrong returned to the community, which is why I hope we start stigmatizing this riotous behavior like we once did.

Comments
  1. WBMT says:

    Black men released from prison who’ve engaged in HOMOSEXUAL SEX who infect these women

    That hyperbole is a far removed from the truth. Top 3 reasons (behaviors) for incidence of HIV in Black women.

    1) IV Drug use
    2) Prostitution
    3) High risk (unprotected/anal) intercourse with known IV drug user

  2. SisterSeeking says:

    “By time! Surely the human being is at loss. Except for those who have faith and do righteous deeds and exhort one another to truth and exhort one another to patience.” [Sûrah al-`Asr]

    Say: Our Lord Grant us increase in Knowledge {Surah Taha:114}

    I am a slave of God
    I ought to do his will.
    I can do what He tells me,
    And by His grace, I will.
    St. Augustine

  3. SisterSeeking says:

    Disclaimer: This is my own personal understanding of the Almighty’s words to mankind, of course, nothing is better than tafseer. It’s always wise to read in context.

    Now, to the beef and potatoes:

    “By time! Surely the human being is at loss. Except for those who have faith and do righteous deeds and exhort one another to truth and exhort one another to patience.” [Sûrah al-`Asr]

    1- Our Lord (I’m referring to “all” people Muslim or otherwise. There are not separate gods for separate people) tells us that “mankind” is at a loss… yet when we see the decay of {a} people, we attach the rotten sewerage to their humanity.
    It is a crime to do so and a tragedy for us all. It is a crime because we place ourselves in a position as law giver (we are not the law giver God is) and it is tragedy because much of the self-destruction people practice is often a direct result of un-diagnosed mental illness, and learning disorders.

    2- What exactly is the loss? What is the loss in our ethnic community? I believe the losses are many: disbelief manifested in humanism, secularism, deism, theism, and communism. Rejecting scripture by reducing the content to metaphors, and fast food or feel good theology. Rejecting our own humanity by preaching that life has no purpose, no goal, and that we live in a meaningless universe where we half to create meaning to simply get by. We have no reason to live, and no reason to die. Therefore we have no reason to be “good”. If we have no reason to be good, we have no shame, and are free to oppress ourselves and each other.

    3-The absence of love. “Love” has become something unreal, and farfetched. Its “silly” or “simplistic.” It’s been corrupted by Holly Wood like notions of really nothing—complete selfishness, and emptiness even– insanity. Many of us (self included) reject the love of God if isn’t manifested in a BMW, trophy wife, or adoring cheerleaders of our ego. What I see in our ethnic community is villages of people who are unaware of God’s love, mercy, and power for them. This blindness just trickles down until it explodes than finally decays. Can the young girls you mentioned learn that it is the love of God that their infants wake up everyday and smile naturally? Can the men you mentioned who don’t pay child support learn that it is the love of God that the children they rejected long for them?

    4-The elimination of chivalry. Feminism didn’t do it. Lesbians didn’t do it. White women didn’t do it. Working mothers didn’t do it. Welfare didn’t do it. Mankind did it. We did it to ourselves. Many of us (self included) lack the motivation to not only be good but to do our duty out of honor. We have no honor because disbelief taught us there are no reasons to live, and no reasons to die. It’s difficult to experience joy, fulfillment, and hunger to be honorable. Moral codes? Are you crazy? That’s like suicide. There once was a time in the black community that men out of sacred respect for duty would marry a widower; there was once a time the black community that men out of sacred respect for chivalry would not ask a woman to put out with out a ring on her finger; and there was once a time when men in the black community would leave home dressed in a suite even if the worked grueling hours on a railroad track.

  4. SisterSeeking says:

    I’m calling for the reinstatement of the stigma on un-wed motherhood. Damn it, its time for some righteous indignation and a show of outrage! What we’re seeing is down right disgusting. There must be a deep and profound sense of right and wrong returned to the community, which is why I hope we start stigmatizing this riotous behavior like we once did.

    Brother, sit back, and look at this statement again…

    Read it again, and again.

    Abdur Rahman, the stigmatizing didn’t work in the first place: if it did we wouldn’t be in this situation today. Shunning is a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

    These women (young and old) are committing suicide. Self destruction is a slow suicide.

    Whoredom is a problem for mankind: it’s been here since the beginning of time.

    As for finding solutions or really ways to manage the problem we must all pray:

    Say: Our Lord Grant us increase in Knowledge {Surah Taha:114}

    Many BA’s who are educated professionals believe the solution lies in mentorship: it never will. The solution is “discipleship” or “stewardship”. I have seen up close and person how many of these “big brothers” and “big sisters” are not only insincere but hypocritical. Young people are people: they understand the conflicting, and competing messages. When I see BA’s who tell a young person to practice abstinence, and turn around and go swinging at a night club it makes me want to cry…

    Nevertheless I believe that we half to help each other and teach our children:

    I am a slave of God
    I ought to do his will.
    I can do what He tells me,
    And by His grace, I will.
    St. Augustine

    Salaam

  5. Kwame Madden says:

    If you have know shame do as you please.This is part of the problem.Modesty and virtue have become loss in this society.Sahl-ibnSa’d reports that a man came to Allah’sRasul[peace be upon him]and asked,’O Rasul of Allah,guide me to a good deed which,when I have done it,I shall be loved by Allah and by men?he Salla Allah alayim wa-sallam replied,If you abstain from pleasures of this world,Allah will love you,and if abstain from hoping to get what men possess,men will love you.[Ibn Maja]To often we indulge in pleasures that later on or even afterwards have negative affects on our lives.Three and four kids out of wedlock and you still believe you deserve a virtious muslim wife.Take responsibilty for being slick sly sugar daddy.I’m glad brother you mention about the downlow hoodlums who sleep around with both women and men.Unfortunely we had radio stations in Newyork giving these freaks airtime to virtually brag about there immorality.Unfortunely, homosexuality has become approved pratice by by much of the clergy in our community.Also acedemics,politicians ,socialworkers,activist and many others have cowed down to this abhorent pratice .We muslims must stay strong and call it like it is even amongst our own who want to be a irresponsible no good citizen.Yes, homosexuality exist in muslim community dont be naive.Hard pill to swallow but its real.

  6. SisterSeeking says:

    “UN fortunely, homosexuality has become approved practice by much of the clergy in our community.”

    “Also academics, politicians, social workers, activists, and many others have cowed down to this abhorrent practice.”

    Salaam Brother Kwame:

    (By the way I love your name)

    I’m concerned that peoples approach to this problem is just all wrong—totally misdirected. What I hear in the tone of your post, is attacking the people (calling Allah’s creation freaks) instead of attacking the root of the problem.

    Look at what you wrote above Brother…

    : )

    Let us ask “why” not the “what” and “where”.

    If we don’t we are merely running in circles.

    Speaking from “one” of “many” Muslim perspectives, this is a direct result of disbelief.

    Remember, there was once a time, in the North American medical community when homosexuality was defined and treated as a mental illness: now the medical community based off their own studies, and research has dismissed that diagnosis. The gay community has its own lobby which has the ability to flex its financial and political power as any other community. Many people either unaware or forgetful don’t realize that many medical associations including the FDA are private institutions (just because they receive federal funds or are regulated by federal laws doesn’t mean they are entities of the government.)

    Some of the professionals and clergy you spoke about above sincerely believe in the “evidence” these medical associations present because they have divorced religion from science; they have divorced religion from reason; and they have divorced the law giver from the law enforcer. This divorce is nothing new: Western Civilization was revived from Islamic Civilization precisely because our deen did not divorce: science from religion; religion from reason; and the law giver from the law enforcer. Many of us (North American Muslims) are historically illiterate. If we were not, we would understand why our own clergy has intellectually and spiritually assimilated.

    In order to fix this fitnah (I mean fitnah in every sense of its Qur’anic description) we are going to half to go back to the classical time period theologically, politically, and spiritually for a reference only—I personally can’t figure out any other way to resolve the problem. Mankind is back where we started. Technology has duped us into thinking we have progressed, but we have not in my humble opinion.

    In order to attack the root of the problem it’s going to require:

    Healthy families who can produce scholars, leaders, and warriors—not in the violent sense of the term, but individuals who are classically trained, and seasoned with the right type of modernization to reform our community.

    What we must attack is the belief system and culture that produces the individuals who practice all of the behaviors brought up in this special as well as the misguided professionals, and clergymen who assist and aide in their pathology. We can not attack through character defamation, shaming, blaming, shunning, and isolation—we half to go back to the ancients and look at the traditions of those who were rightly guided because they sincerely believed they were under the authority of God not man made law.

    We also must find a way to get beyond the fake interfaith dialogue and build a bridge with Jews and Christians who believe in the literal word of their scripture versus dealing with those who have reduced the content of scripture to a bunch metaphors, and euphuisms. Those people may have good intentions and are good people, but those people are the same people that are aiding and assisting the problem. Yes they may believe in social mercy as evidenced in social service programs but they never get to the root of why people are in need of social services for extended periods of time.

    AllahuAlim, Kwame.

    My take on it.

    Salaam

    : )

  7. I am so mad at you Abdur Rahman, I was going to write about morality in the BA community! Maybe I will because I’m coming in at a different angle.

  8. […] I am inclined to speak about mentorship but I have to agree with Sister Seeking (who commented on Abdur Rahman’s Blog) when she said “Many BA’s who are educated professionals believe the solution lies in […]

  9. Ty Harris says:

    I am sorry to say that you are right sir. The biggest example of a lack of shame in black culture that has had the worst consequences for persons of color would be the many young black men who impregnate women without assuming any of the responsibilities of fatherhood. That’s a lack of shame right there I think, because if you have a sense of morality, then surely you feel some responsibility to the child you have brought into the world.

    My other pet peeve is the failed public education system in many minority communities and inner cities. I wish more black people would vote in favor of candidates who support vouchers and parental school choice. We spend more money than any nation on the planet to educate these kids, but the results we get are appalling. I would like to see that money given directly to the parents who can place their kids in a private or charter school where they have to compete and be held acountable. Yet you see 90% of blacks voting for liberal politicians who are doing the teacher’s union’s bidding and do not have the children’s interests at heart at all. I think that part of a sense of morality would include being willing to look at the root causes of the education system that is failing a lot of black children and being willing to vote accordingly. Too many people assume that the Democrats have their interests at heart and it’s just not so. If I was a poor black person, and I had to send my kid to one of these inner city schools with 50% drop-out rates, and where most kids cant read, write or do simple math, I would be out there doing everything I could to get my kids the same educational choices that rich white people have.

    Anyways, good post.

    I had a hard time watching that series on CNN, because they seemed to be missing the whole point a lot of the time, and coming at things primarily from a liberal viewpoint ( as they do with every other topic )…

    The fact of the matter is that most problems that exist in the black community today are no longer the result of racism or discrimination, but rather are the results of self-inflicted scenarios caused by attitudes and behaviors that have inevitable negative social consequences. The lack of support for scool-choice, and the problem of fathers not BEING fathers are just two that come immediatly to mind.

  10. Jamerican Muslimah,

    What, you better do it! We need the best and brightest of our minds to weigh in on this, and your writings always help us see things in entirely fresh ways. Do your thing sister.

  11. Kwame Madden says:

    Sister seeking ,Your mind is very sharp may Allah continue to bless you with even further insight.Yes sister I did call them freaks not because I hate them as human beings but because I dislike that there spreading chaos in our community.Certain people or problems that are causing Destruction and mayhem need to be ldentified.As far as the clergy is concern I dont believe they have just disvorced religion from science or reason .The problem with much of the clergy is that they understand also that many of these homosexuals also have money to contribute the coffersof the church.There is growing black professional class or middleclass who attend these chuches who are gay.Many of them find Gods law as being something outdated and to hard to follow.You you hear statements like no one can follow the law.Unfortunely many churches don’t help as far as this is concern because they verily ever focus on the scripture in the old testament which is full with the law.Also sister many people have now tooken the postion that to openly speak out aganist homosexuality as being some self righteous condemnation.By doing this and also the strong lobbies that the gay community has a person career can be ruined depending on the type of work he does.Also sister lets not forget that this way of life is even promoted in some textbooks that are given to school children.Brother Ty ,as far as the private and charter schools go I’m not crazy at all about this .Many times already failing school districts are drained even more when these grand schemes concotted by usually rightwing consertive idealist are put into effect.I do agree with you that many of the teacher unions dont have the children best interest.I dont believe just more money in these districts is the answer either.The atmosphere and enviroment has to come under some real revoultionary change.Also we have to be involved as much as we can.

  12. SisterSeeking says:

    “Yes sister I did call them freaks not because I hate them as human beings but because I dislike that there spreading chaos in our community.”

    Okay, cool.

    “Certain people or problems that are causing Destruction and mayhem need to be identified.”

    I agree. My concern was that BA’s should not become violent or oppressive towards people who they believe to be the origin of the problem. Our Prophet sws taught us to “help the oppressed, and the oppressor.”

    “As far as the clergy is concern I don’t believe they have just divorced religion from science or reason.”

    Kwame, I don’t believe you understood the message I was trying to convey. If some camps within the Judeo-Christian tradition did not divorce religion from science and reason, they would not have accepted any evidence that would have contradicted the basic Ten Commandments:

    1) “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me”
    ** Because many people have reduced the texts within their tradition to metaphors evolution is the new god. Because the commandments are only metaphors it’s enough to just acknowledge a higher power and be done with it.

    (And in case anyone asks, I am aware of the creation theory Christians)

    I understand that you, and others believe we should identify the people and the problem, and again, it’s NOT the people per se—we half to look with compassion, and love; we half to act with justice, and mercy. We half to follow our nabi, sws, when he said: “help the oppressed and the oppressor.” What I’m trying to convince you, and others to do, is detach the people from their behavior, and trace the problem back to the root—it didn’t begin with them. I can guarantee you and anyone else 110% that if you don’t, you will fail miserably like many before you. This idea that humans have it within themselves to control and repair everything to perfection is humanism to this lady. I’m not saying become fatalistic, apathetic, and inactive: on the contrary, I’m trying to encourage people to look to God as God has explained in their respective text and look at the “timeless” values that are tools and promises.

    “The problem with much of the clergy is that they understand also that many of these homosexuals also have money to contribute the coffers of the church. There is growing black professional class or middleclass who attend these churches who are gay.”

    You know what comes to mind? A hadith I once read (I’m not sure if its sahih) where it explained that the scholars who failed to heal, and help (deliberately) people they would be destroyed first: I say this to say, the clergy who operate like this are already dead, they have already been destroyed. Their disease is worse than the sin they profit from. If any one is going to be attacked, let it be them. They deserve what ever happens because they had knowledge, and perverted it.

    “Many of them find Gods law as being something outdated and to hard to follow. You hear statements like no one can follow the law.Unfortunely many churches don’t help as far as this is concern because they verily ever focus on the scripture in the Old Testament which is full with the law.”

    I’ve had the pleasure of meeting several “classical literate” “trained” and “practicing Christian homeschooling families in my part of Virginia. They are from numerous denominations. I see a MAJOR difference between these Christians, and people like Bishop T.D. Jakes. I know because I’ve seen with my own eyes there are Christians who do follow the commandments and at the very least the spirit of the law with out detaching that spirit from its text.

    “Also sister lets not forget that this way of life is even promoted in some textbooks that are given to school children.”

    Kwame, you must have missed out on my blog when I had it up?
    Don’t you know I’m a pro-homeschooler?

  13. SisterSeeking says:

    “I think that part of a sense of morality would include being willing to look at the root causes of the education system that is failing a lot of black children and being willing to vote accordingly.”

    I agree with you 100% and that’s why I’m a moderate Libertarian. I’ve completely given up on the Democratic Party to do anything other than raise my property taxes. Now in my areas we are gong to have a food tax for dinning out to pay for the public schools. No wonder our country isn’t blessed. Nickled and dimed; and taxed to death for everything!

    “My other pet peeve is the failed public education system in many minority communities and inner cities. I wish more black people would vote in favor of candidates who support vouchers and parental school choice. We spend more money than any nation on the planet to educate these kids, but the results we get are appalling. I would like to see that money given directly to the parents who can place their kids in a private or charter school where they have to compete and be held accountable.”

    Ty Harris, I half to “respectively” disagree with your solution for Everybody’s children here. I believe that all parents of every nation, race, creed, and religion have the God given and constitutional right to educate, and direct the {entire} education of their child with out any type of governmental interference ( with the exception of child abuse and neglect). From a purely political point of view, I have a BIG problem with school vouchers and “fake” parental choice policies because the government would no longer be operating as a democracy or republic but as a fascist’s institution: privately owned but publicly funded. Nothing is for free. Some Christians were duped into this and didn’t get that putting up the 10 commandments or dismissing teachers that had a non-heterosexual orientation violated the conditions to receive the money—tax payer money. If Muslims think we will do any better with vouchers I guess we have reached a new day in our already broken communities.

    I also have a problem with the populace being taught that education, and training is something that takes place outside of the home with adults who don’t love, and respect children. Exactly why are these people “worthy” to teach our children? Because they attended some socialist college that taught them to be a leech on the tax payer, and run our children like a cog on a wheel through the school system?

    “The fact of the matter is that most problems that exist in the black community today are no longer the result of racism or discrimination, but rather are the results of self-inflicted scenarios caused by attitudes and behaviors that have inevitable negative social consequences. The lack of support for school-choice, and the problem of fathers not BEING fathers are just two that come immediately to mind.”

    Ever herd of post-traumatic slave syndrome? It’s REAL.

  14. Ty Harris says:

    Sister Seeking- Nice chatting with you. How does publicly funded and privately administered education amount to fascism? With vouchers, YOU- the parent- would have the option to send your child to ANY school- public or private- that meets YOUR standards of academic acheivement, by giving you back YOUR tax dollars to spend as you choose. Underthis scenario, there will, of course, be many private schools that will be run by christian churches, and there will also be many schools who will be run by secular organizations. YOU get to choose. The key is that by giving YOU- the consumer- the choice to spend your allotment of education funds as you see fit, schools have to compete for your business, and parents can hold school districts acccountable by voting with their feet.

    Regarding your desire to see the children educated without any “interference” by the government, I disagree to an extent, in the sense that I think the Government – and indeed all of society- has an interest in seeing that all children regardless of their economic background- have the opportunity to have a quality education. That means public funding, and the use of tax dollars to spread the wealth across all socio-economic divisions. Access to publicly-funded education is a critical component of class mobility in American society. Even if you come from the ghetto, and a poor family, as long as you get a quality education, you can rise higher than where you came from. But the miserable, failed public schools are holding a LOT of black children back from what they could otherwise achieve.

    Yes, muslims WOULD be better served by vouchers and private schools. As would christians, jews, hindus, atheists, and buddhists. When you, the parent have a choice as a consumer, then you WILL be better served by private institutions who have to compete for your money. Objective test scores do not lie. Private schools VASTLY outperform public schools in all respects. Personally, I spent half my school years in private achools, and half of them in public schools. I can honestly say that the standards and the expectations were INCREDIBLY higher in private schools. I learned twice as much when I was in private schools than when I was in public schools.

    Regarding “post-traumatic slave syndrome”, I think that’s absurd and ridiculous. No black person alive today in America has ever been a slave, and no white person alive today in America has ever owned a slave. If you are THAT desperate to have a victim mentality, that you have to borrow the problems of your ancestors to feel bad about, it’s obvious that you are just looking for an excuse to explain your own failures in life. Victimhood- especially imaginary victimhood helps nobody acheive anything, and young people’s minds especially should not be filled with such nonsense. Why tell young people all the reasons why they CANT suceed? What is gained by any of this post-traumatic slave foolishness, except an excuse to fail, I ask you?

  15. Ty Harris says:

    Kwame-

    Sir, may I just say that I appreciate your viewpoints, and I would like to adress your statement of conscern about draining funds from already failing school districts. I believe that the flawed premis which underlies that line of reasoning is the pre-supposition that such a district is entitled to ANY funding at all. Let that money be spent by parents at an educational institution that DOESNT fail. It’s not as though we have a choice only between the failed public schools and nothing at all. To the extent that those funds are taken away from the failed educational systems, they are also GIVEN to sucessful institutions that will serve the student’s needs better.

    The public school system in Detroit and Washington DC should be COMPLETELY gutted and abandoned entirely. They consume ridiculous amounts of money, and in return, all they do is cheat black children by giving them an appalingly woeful education. They should literally padlock the doors, fire the teachers, bulldoze the buildings and send the parents a check to go private-school shopping with.

    Parents of innner-city black children could, and should, take that money and send their children to vastly superior private schools. There is NO loser under the voucher scenario except the teacher’s unions and the education beaurocrats. The head of one of the nation’s biggest teacher’s unions once admitted that he doesnt care a bit about the children. He said, and I quote ” I’ll start representing the interests of students when they start paying union dues.” End of quote. I realize that a lot of blacks in America don’t like the conservative republicans because of the whole civil-rights era struggles, but times change, and right now, black people need to realize that conservative republicans are the ones trying to give poor black children the ability to attend private schools and get a better education. It’s the democrats who are blocking that from happening for no good reason.

    Black people who have the best interests of their children at heart should vote republican, and I dont see that happening at all. The so called “progressive” party is the one that is intentionally blocking black people’s progress by keeping their children imprisoned in these awful, miserable, worthless public school systems. The fact that black people keep voting democrat, while the democrats do everything in their power to keep them down and uneducated ( and therefore un-empowered ), is an example of what I am talking about when I say that a lot of the problems in black culture today are self-inflicted.

    Thank you very much for taking the time to hear my opinions, and I appreciate the opportunity to dialogue with you in a constructive manner.

    -Ty

  16. Ty Harris says:

    Sister seeking- If I understand you corectly, I think I see that when you said you dont want government “interference” in education, you were referring to the right of parents to home school. I agree totally as long as parents can demonstrate that educational standards are being met, which shouldnt be a problem 99% of the time, because in most cases, home-schooled children do far better than public-schooled children on standardized tests. Public-school attendance should not be compulsory.

    However, I do believe strongly that the government should make AVAILABLE to all children and families a publicly funded education if the parents wish to avail themselves of that option. That means taxation and income redistribution, and to a libertarian, that in and of itself could be considered “interference” in a negative sense. If you are referring to THAT kind of “interference” in educational matters persay,then I would have to disagree and say that it is neccesary and beneficial. Government does have a proper role to play in this to ensure opportunities for all children of various social strata. I just want for us to get accountability and positive results in return for our massive societal investment in education. And that means that I logically support public funding of private schools and parental choice by way of vouchers. That scenario is the fairest in terms of socio-economic equality of opportunity for all, and the most efficient and productive in terms of measurable test results because of the competition and accountability inherant in market-based, consumer-driven systems.

  17. Sister Seeking says:

    Peace and blessings Ty Harris:

    Its nice chatting with you as well.

    I’ll be back to explain my positions a little better- not becuase I need anyone to agree or accept them: just seeking understanding.

    I do disagree with you that slavery, and segregation has has no bearing on the family systems of black people. I did not bring it up as a means to justify behaviour that was not my intention.

    Out shopping with TAX free holiday.

    Mary Ann

  18. Kwame Madden says:

    Brother Ty, my frame of mind and references are beyond both republician and democrat I could care two cents about both parties.If you read my comments on this blog concerning Barrak Obama I totally disagree with those who have fallen for this first black president nonsense .They believe we must bypass all logic and reason and pretend that he has our best interest at heart.Brother Ty, to suggest that black people who have best interst of there children at heart should vote republician is totally ludricous.Here in NewYork our former governor a republician stated that eighth grade educaution was sufficent for children in the state .Cuts in educaution spending when he first came in office hit us like never before.George Pataki is the governor I’m referring to.Both republicians and democrats have been the problem also poor oversight of the nations failing schools in he inner cities.I do agree with you there have been certain public school systems in cities as will as towns who have been totally irresopnsible in ensuring that our children are educauted.Also brother black culture has nothing to do with this.Black culture does not teach you to rob and steal,disrespect women,curse,and etc.Subculture mentality that been fostered upon do to conditions that were created in our communties is one of the root cause of the problem.Through proper educaution Inshallah, we can root it out.It wont be easy considering all the forces that promote this subculture way of life.Real culture and a replacement cultureare entirely two different things.That does not mean that those things from any culture should not rooted it out if they lead to stagnation or pratices that are abhorent.My salams,may Allah bless you the struggle continues.

  19. Ty Harris says:

    Kwame-

    Sir- I would liken continued funding of the failed public schools in many large urban centers like New York City to pouring water into a bucket with a large hole in it. The solution is not to pour faster. Even if the New York State LEGISLATURE is pouring less money into the bucket because of hard budgetary times, the solution is still not to pour more money into the failed system. It’s time to get a new bucket, dont you think?

    If you were to take even the money that is CURRENTLY being spent per-student in NYC or DC and give that money to parents, it would still be MORE than enough to pay for tuition at vastly superior private schools. This just proves that it is the SYSTEM ITSELF that needs to be scrapped, instead of just pouring more money into it. There is no point in trying to reform it either, because the fundamental things that would work infavor of a child’s best interests do not exist under the current scenario- ie competition, parental choice, and accountability. Why even pursue this folly anymore? As you said in an earlier comment, we need revolutionary change. So let’s get going on the revolution. What do we have to lose?

    Republicans ARE fighting for the changes that will result in parental choice, better schools, and better test scores. It’s a fact. We are proposing real solutions that will result in a better education for your children. The democrats are blocking these things from happening, to protect the status quo- which is in the interests of the bearocrats and the teachers unions. They are the ONLY ones who win under the current scenario!

    So you see that the political parties DO matter in this. We need change. We need parental choice. We need vouchers for the parents to send their kids to better schools. We need to end this cycle of miserable failure, and we need to tell the teachers unions to go to hell. Republicans are fighting for all of these things. So why is it so hard for you to admit that and join us?

    I mean- suppose for a second that we had our way, and all the parents in NYC got checks for their allocation of the billions of dollars that we spend on education, and they had the power to choose where their kids went to school, and private schools sprang up to compete with each other to serve these new empowered consumers of education. What do you think would be the result of that? Who would be the loser in that scenario, I ask you? What would be the down side? Are you saying that things would not improve as a result of that happening? You KNOW they would improve- so I say again- JOIN US!

    Respectfully, Ty

  20. The way I see it, the problem with schools is not the school per se

    (though I graduated HS in 1992.. so who knows what school boards have done in the name of social engineering since then)

    the ultimate problem is the culture of the community where the kids are being raised and educated… race is incidental.

    Without choice, kids are being locked into the culture of their community and should that culture be poisonous to their betterment then all the money in the world isn’t going to solve that.

    They need a chance to go somewhere better.. if they want to. To any school.

    I think Sweden has a great model.

    Any private entity can open their own open-to-public-enrollment school… based on whatever educational theory they want (provided some basic things are accredited).. these schools are in competition with one another to attract students.

    The govt gives the family of all school age childern X amount of dollars.to spend at the school the family chooses to send their kids to.

    I think the benefits of that system are clear compared to our US system.

    I think that is the only European social service model that I have ever approved of.

  21. SisterSeeking says:

    @ Ty-Harris,

    You know what? I like you—I don’t agree with everything {you believe} but I respect you, because you have enough guts to come on a blog owned, and operated by a practicing Muslim where other practicing Muslims frequent.

    I have reached a level in my spiritual formation where I don’t require that others agree or accept everything I say. I strive to understand others first before attempting to get others to understand me—that means that I half to humble my ego, and listen ( or in our case read) as well as reflect in stead of attempting to force feed what I believe the solution is. In order to persuade, you half to first win the mind, and heart of a person—not become insensitive, and demanding.

    Now, to {your} statements:

    Black people who have the best interests of their children at heart should vote republican and I don’t see that happening at all. The so called “progressive” party is the one that is intentionally blocking black people’s progress by keeping their children imprisoned in these awful, miserable, worthless public school systems. The fact that black people keep voting democrat, while the democrats do everything in their power to keep them down and uneducated ( and therefore un-empowered ), is an example of what I am talking about when I say that a lot of the problems in black culture today are self-inflicted. Ty-Harris

    SS: Black people who have the best interest of their children at heart should vote for what ever political party they believe will best serve their community, and ALL of humanity. That may be {your} political party and it may not be, not all of us share a monolithic perception—we are human—we are individuals. “Some” of us, are fed up with BOTH the democrats and republicans: some of us are independent thinkers who value liberty in education, therefore, we believe that all parities have a CONSTUTIONAL right to be on the ballot, and excluding them is a civil liberties violation BIG time. Republicans are as guilty as blocking other parties from getting on the ballot as democrats are. I will agree with your premise here: “The fact that black people keep voting democrat, while the democrats do everything in their power to keep them down and uneducated ( and therefore un-empowered ), is an example of what I am talking about when I say that a lot of the problems in black culture today are self-inflicted.”

    I realize that a lot of blacks in America don’t like the conservative republicans because of the whole civil-rights era struggles, but times change, and right now, black people need to realize that conservative republicans are the ones trying to give poor black children the ability to attend private schools and get a better education. Ty-Harris

    SS: I have a HUGE problem with this whole line of logic here… First of all, if the ideology of the Republican Party was sound in the first place that political party would have stood as a whole unit for peace, truth, and justice for ALL people regardless off creed or color: but they didn’t. Secondly, I don’t like the sound of this” republicans are the ones trying to give poor black children the ability to…” It’s self-righteous and very arrogant—it sounds as if poor black children are a charity case instead of human beings deserving of education. I don’t like the idea that White people see themselves in the position to “give” anybody anything out that type of egocentric spirit. The racial overtones of that statement whether intentional are not are SCATHING. This is problematic for some of us because we believe in self-sufficiency, and interdependence. The idea that we always half to go outside of our family units and communities to succeed: is destroying our children especially our black boys. For Muslims who are reading, and care, when I speak of attacking the “root” of our problems in the black community here is a prime example right here. All one needs to do is read the work of Carter G. Woodson. Attack the belief system, and culture first, and the pathology will go away. This idea that we can’t do for ourselves, and half to depend on others for so much needs to be destroyed. If you destroy it, you destroy the behaviors associated with.

    Regarding “post-traumatic slave syndrome”, I think that’s absurd and ridiculous. No black person alive today in America has ever been a slave, and no white person alive today in America has ever owned a slave. If you are THAT desperate to have a victim mentality, that you have to borrow the problems of your ancestors to feel bad about, it’s obvious that you are just looking for an excuse to explain your own failures in life. Victimhood- especially imaginary victim hood helps nobody achieve anything and young people’s minds especially should not be filled with such nonsense. Why tell young people all the reasons why they CAN’T succeed? What is gained by any of this post-traumatic slave foolishness, except an excuse to fail, I ask you? – Ty Harris

    SS: My grandmother used to tell me that to assume is to make an ass out of u and me. You DON’T know me. You DIDN’T test your assumption that I have a victim mentality? Where is your EVIDENCE? Where have I stated in any of my commentary that I am a victim, and called others to join me? People who think like you turn people off because they don’t seek to understand before being understood. Who are you or anyone else to decide what beliefs children should or should not have? Why are you or any one else worthy? Exactly what is your moral authority? What is their’s? How is that attitude going to work toward people of faith who actually practice? Furthermore, what about people of EVERY race who believe in parental rights? Where is your evidence that post-traumatic slave disorder does not exist? You present yourself as being the authority on what we need to do? What about it? Any ethnic group that has been systematically oppressed will exhibit various forms of mental illness; the mental illness is most often noticeable in the break down of their family systems. Black Americans are not the only group who have been systematically oppressed and fell completely apart. If Black Americans were treated like other groups who were systemically oppressed by receiving legal and financial protection; intensive re-education and counseling; and a secured priority with the United Nations, maybe our ethnic community could have realistically dealt with the mental illnesses that resulted from the trauma of slavery, segregation, and de-segregation. What I find absurd is your insensitivity, poor logic, and complete break with reality. I’m fed up with this attitude from “some” white people that black people half to be perfect, super humans, who can rise above everything all of the time. It is a FACT that in war zone domestic violence increases; it is fact that in a war zone child abuse and neglect increases; and it is fact that the individuals in these situations do not receive professional intervention that they will pass on their dysfunctions from generation to generation: which is what has happened to us. Nobody on this blog is suggesting that this is the end all to the situation. What I am suggesting is that if we don’t attack the belief system, and the culture we won’t succeed.

    continued…

  22. SisterSeeking says:

    How does publicly funded and privately administered education amount to fascism? Ty-Harris

    SS: Don’t ask if you don’t want to hear the answer.

    “Publicly funded” Implies: a specific instance of state intervention in personal, social or economic matters. That Ty-Harris “IS”: Statism, which IS a variety of Fascism.

    Merriam Webster dictionary defines statism as a “concentration of economic controls, and planning in the hands of a highly centralized government.”

    Republicans are fascists in my opinion based off the many varieties of fascism as follows:

    “Fascism is an authoritarian nationalist political ideology and mass movement that holds traditionalist notions of reversing cultural decline or decadence, and which seeks to achieve a millenarian national rebirth by exalting most commonly the nation state, but sometimes the race, and which promotes unity, strength and cultural renewal.”

    *Don’t you even think, that, because republicans now often exclude the racial element here that some of us don’t see through that sorry fasad. Try again.

    “Fascist regimes subordinate free enterprise to perceived national interests”

    *Hmm… Wonder what happened to those private defense contractors like Northrop Grumman?

    “Fascist governments nationalized some key industries, managed their currencies and made some massive state investments. They also introduced price controls, wage controls and other types of economic planning measures. Fascist governments instituted state-regulated allocation of resources, especially in the financial and raw materials sectors.”

    * The U.S. has certainly been here before.

    “Other than nationalization of certain industries, private property was allowed, but property rights and private initiative were contingent upon service to the state.”

    * This is why vouchers will fail ALL religious private schools. Any literate and practicing Muslim private school that has a pedagogical creed that is implemented in its curriculum will automatically be exempt from receiving funds period because that creed serves Allah, and not the state. That’s whole point of religious private schools in the first place: to worship God as they see fit with out the controls from the state.

    Yes, Muslims WOULD be better served by vouchers and private schools. As would Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, and Buddhists. Ty-Harris

    SS: This is only true to a certain degree:

    I’m not concerned with the other groups you mentioned because it’s up to their clergy and leadership to serve their people. The American Muslim community is not a place where others can come to us for help because we are internally divided.

    Yes, Ty-Harris, “SOME” Muslims would be better served, by a school voucher. The only Muslims who would be better served are those who are not literate of their religion, do not practice, and do not understand the requirements of the covenant with Allah. Those Muslims don’t know, or understand they are violating their own children’s rights according to our sacred law: our children have a right to be raised Muslim in a context that empowers Islam, and does not challenge its supremacy until the creed, and implementation have been firmly established. Those people will be benefit but it will be to a detriment to the faith of their children. Non-Muslims, especially secularist don’t care about this, and some want to see Islam abolished anyway. The fastest way to do this is through the education of a child, therefore, an entire generation. Sadly, our own religious clergy have betrayed us by only caring about themselves and focusing everything overseas, so these parents will have no choice but to accept this option because our own community isn’t strong enough to give them an alternative.

    Nothing is for free. That’s the devils deception. Since 9-11 “some” Muslim communities have been denied the freedom of religion, and the freedom to assemble by local county governments who have denied their right to construct a Mosque or even an Islamic center. “Some” Muslim schools have been harassed or shut down by both local and state governments who would never dare do the same to another private Christian or Jewish day school. The same mentality that led to finding a loop hole in a code, or law that restricted our right to assemble will be the same mentality that will find yet another loop hole to keep Muslim private schools from receiving funding. Any Muslim in doubt only needs to look to the Islamic Saudia Academy fist fight with Fairfax County Government and VA State for living evidence. The truth is that many non-Muslim tax payers ( and some Muslims too) will object to public funds being given to private religious institutions, and some Christian and Jewish denominations in particular will especially object. Furthermore, some believe that only giving vouchers to low income parents is class war fare, and some believe that only giving vouchers to parents of public schools students is religious discrimination ( in that it discriminates against parents who already have children enrolled in private

    continued…

  23. SisterSeeking says:

    religious schools), and a violation of liberty in education, as it excludes home educators.

    Access to publicly-funded education is a critical component of class mobility in American society. Even if you come from the ghetto, and a poor family, as long as you get a quality education, you can rise higher than where you came from. Ty-Harris

    SS: Not true. Why is this not true Ty-Harris? If private and public employers hired, fired, promoted, and demoted based strictly off of “merit” there would have been no need for Unions, EEOC’s, Equity Programs, Human Rights Commissions, ACLU’s, NAACP’s, and Anti-Defamation Leagues. Are all of these people pathetic liars, running wild with delusions? Is every claim of racial, religious, gender and disability discrimination false? How do we know? The problem with this belief is two fold: black people aren’t the only ones being discriminated against who have exceeded many of the educational and employment requirements for work: everybody has. The reality is that the most employers do not operate on a merit system; and the reality is that most employers half to be bribed into diversity programs. Furthermore, because the clergy, and medical community have racial issues they have neglected to treat the various mental illnesses that have resulted from trauma in our community as a whole: having a college degree is worthless when your maturity quotient and life skills radar are so low, that you make choices that negate the benefits of the dam degree in the first place. Many single black mothers are college educated
    (Don’t even get me started on these socialist colleges) but lack life skills—evidence they are not EDUCATED because education is inherently religious but again, we live in a secular country that divorced religion from its institutions. This is what you get. By the way, black women aren’t the only single mothers in the world.

    There is NO loser under the voucher scenario except the teacher’s unions and the education beaurocrats. The head of one of the nation’s biggest teacher’s unions once admitted that he doesn’t care a bit about the children. He said, and I quote” I’ll start representing the interests of students when they start paying union dues.” End of quote Ty-Harris

    SS: I only agree that the teacher’s unions will not benefit. But I’m sure they will find a clever way to re-institute themselves back into the picture because they have been trained to be public leeches. Happy will be the day, when the type of statism that believes children are its property instead of the God given trust of their parents, and extended families is eliminated once for all. This is why I became a libertarian because the only way to do this is to shrink the government as much as possible. Make no mistake, my allegiance to Allah, and the covenant I took with my Lord; make no mistake that I obey the law out of reverence for my Lord, and in that is an understanding that I’m God’s property as are my children. We do not belong to the dam state but God- and God alone!!!!

  24. At the heart of Fascism is collectivism.

    Fascism, Socialism, Communism, NAZIism all have collectivism at their core.

  25. I am wondering why when a man leaves the home. He is called a triffling man who ran out on his kids. Maybe there is another side to this equation maybe by some chance of sheer coincidence there is a woman who is equally accountable in front of her lord for her behaivor and was disrespecting the home and the husband. That is not a healthy envoirnment for children to grow up in. The reality is that when two people can’t get along they need to handle the situation like adults and put the children first. But I will agree the man has to set the pace. There are also a whole slew of issues not being addressed such as the whole divorce “industry” and those who seek to perpetuate it. The war against the family and a whole host of other issues. Morality and family are not the sole domain of one gender it is not enough to simply say okay everyone needs to get some morals and things will magically be better. There are various forces at work in our society that need to be directly confronted we can no longer just pull the morality wool over our eyes. The situation is complex and equally so are the solutions.

  26. Kwame Madden says:

    Ty,Harris pretty soon your be promoting state rights without any any Federal government oversight.This whole ideal of totally putting education in the hands of private entities and vouchers system being a major part in education in this country is ludricous.Also Ty, are you for having no teachers unions at all?You just can’t paint the teachers unions with a broad brush despite the many problems they have.Unons all across America need improvement.Yes historically it is true these teachers unions are infested with racism and daming black kids when its comes to educaution.But polticians and policymakers are also to blame .Read a shame of Nation by Johthan Kozol.This man has been for the last 40yrs montoring educaution in this country especially in the inner cities and rural America.As he has stated it is almost as if school desegeration policies never happened.Policies that effect these schools when it comes to the amount of textbooks, amount of pupils in a class,maintenance of buildinds proper nutrition and other things are all the result of polticians ,institutional racim, and blantant disregard for blackchildren.Us running our own canditates who are commited to our children will defentenly help out when it comes to how school funding should be distributed.There are so many things involved that none of us have the totlal solution .With the capitalist system neglect has to happen on a some portion of the society.Blacks just happen to be first on this systems list.Also brother Derrik Bell N.Y.U. professor and civil rights attorney has written a excellent book on this.Sisterseeking keep up the good work we can all learn from your brillancy with the pen and your brillant mind.The struggles continues My salams to all the muslims reading this blog.Abdur Rahman and all you muslim blog sites may Allah reward you this just what the indengious muslims needed in this time of crisis as we fight for our existence and idenity in thr ranks of the ummah.

  27. […] West Indians. For me, the article raised some important questions. AbdurRahman also wrote a piece, ONe Word on CNN”s “Black in America”: MORALITY. Drawing on JM and AR’s articles, I will explore some of the major questions surrounding […]

  28. […] West Indians. For me, the article raised some important questions. AbdurRahman also wrote a piece, ONe Word on CNN”s “Black in America”: MORALITY. Drawing on JM and AR’s articles, I will explore some of the major questions surrounding […]

  29. SisterSeeking says:

    ( a comment I left on Maragari’s blog)
    Wa alaikum salaam sister,

    I’m willing to do what ever I am able to do to reach out and touch the hearts and minds of people. I don’t mind being a contributing writer, but I don’t have the time to maintain my own blog. I actually had a homeschooling blog going for a minute but my workload is increasing these days!

    I also wanted to share something else personal, and I’m planning on posting this response on AR’s and JM’s blog as well:

    I’ve been an open book on the Muslim blogsphere sharing intimate details of my past both good and bad as well some of my deepest feelings. I think now would be the appropriate time to share a bit more in hopes of touching the mind and heart of any Muslim (practicing or not) who is sincere in their efforts to serve mankind. I want you all to know why I’m so passionate about this issue.

    I am one of those “bastard” children Cosby speaks of. In fact, I’m the third generation of those “bastard” children Cosby speaks of. I know what it feels like to grow up with out a farther, and I know what it feels like to belong to a mother who had children by different men. Although in my mothers case she didn’t have an even playing field because she was mentally ill and taken advantage of by perverts. I grew up in the foster care system in the Midwest. I lived in 17 foster homes many bad but some good. I lived with Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish families. I lived with whites, blacks, and a few Asians. Some foster homes were affluent and some were not. I witnessed sexual and physical abuse in some foster homes on a daily basis. I watched my mother give birth to a still born baby; I watched our family being torn apart as my siblings and I were placed in separated foster homes, and I’ve had my education interrupted several times.
    When I speak about this issue, I’m not speaking from some “self righteous” or “highly educated” position: I’m speaking as an adult child of a broken childhood.
    I’m speaking from real pain, grief, and loss. Many of you educated professionals, especially: social workers, physicians, educators, and clergy members never consult people like me; instead you rely on controlled studies, and text books. I stopped reading parenting books written by Black Professionals such as physicians, social workers, and educators because they have accommodated the sin of conception outside of marriage, and gleefully teach parents that men are not needed to parent, protect, and provide for their own children. Many of the black professionals have been trained in socialist colleges who have manipulated their minds by teaching that collectivism is always the solution for every problem instead of getting to root. This is why I said earlier that having a college degree is completely worthless when an individual has low maturity and life skills quotient, and as a result makes a decision that negates many of the benefits associated with being credentialed. (sorry for the compound sentence)

    I tried to explain earlier on AR’s blog that our community has never experienced healing as a whole, and that we have fallen completely apart through generational decay. I said that because, this is exactly what happened in my biological family (I am adopted). Racism has had a direct impact in our ethnic community particularly those of us who have origins in the south. My great-grandmother was an Indian from the Choctaw tribe. The oppression was so horrendous that she married a black man to escape the poverty-particularly the starvation. To hold her new family together she became a Jehovah Witness but lost her children when her husband died. My grandmother was a single mother, and my mother and her siblings were molested, and beaten by the so called “village” we preach about returning to. My mother and her siblings ended up being adopted out by distant relatives who used them to work their farm: I’m talking about growing up in a shot gun house, eating dandelion soup, and having no shoes to walk to school in. No plumbing, no electricity, having to use an old outhouse. This is why I nearly cursed that republican blogger out for suggesting that merit is the standard when that isn’t the reality.

    I am the first child of my mother to be married, a home owner, and soon a college graduate. My other sibling did not make it out so well and rejects any type of help.

    To conclude this ramble, and to reach out to touch your hearts, I want to share how I came to realize ONE of many solutions to the problems in our ethnic community.

    You all know my mother passed away from breast cancer-but that wasn’t the first time I’d lost her, and I was just beginning to get to know her as a person with out the confines of the dam (pardon me) state interfering. Watching this woman who hid behind trees to watch us get on the school bus, ate banana peels so we could eat the banana when we were homeless, and spent her ever dime on us only to see some sick foster parents give it to their children instead of us, watching my mother die, and take her last breath, brought a tremendous degree of grief, loss, and pain BUT what came out of that experience was this:

    I made the decision that I was not ONLY going to live for this world
    I made the decision that I was not ONLY going to live for myself
    I made the decision that I was not ONLY going to strive to be comfortable if meant displeasing God, harming others, and was not beneficial

    I encourage others in what ever way you can to see what you can do. None of us can expect to serve others if our goal at the end of the say to is to always serve our own ego and our own flesh. We half to help each other get beyond living for ourselves and this world ONLY at the expense of truth, peace, and justice.

    As a Muslim, Christian, Jews, if we find that: experiencing the daily presence of the Almighty; seeing the face of the almighty in the hereafter; and having the hope for being reunited with loved ones in the hereafter does not make us happy, does not inspire us to be Great and do Great than the problem is not the Master or his Will, the problem is that we have not yet reach a level in our spiritual growth and development where we have made the decision fully aware of the CONSQUENCES that accompany it: that is to live for God instead of our own desires, and mortal comforts.

    Salaam
    Mary Ann

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