Message to Women: There’s No One Protecting the “Community”.

Posted: January 14, 2009 in Uncategorized
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Well, its 2009 and I am back blogging from a well deserved and desperately needed vacation. So what do I encounter upon my return? The same old depressing catastrophe that is the Black American Muslim marriage. I will admit up front that I am emotionally exhausted and extremely cynical about this issue, so please view this post in that context.

Political scientist Charles Catchings wrote a beautifully moving and powerful commentary on the disgraceful treatment being meted out to  Black Muslim women by a deceitful class of lecherous Black Muslim men. Now it seems these “brothers” have seized upon a new tool in their libidinous bag once  the prerogative only of the Shi’a, the infamous mut’a or “temporary” marriage. Apparently this is all the rage. The tried and true three month (or three week) “stranger-marriage” is still with us of course, its just that the Muslim womanizers have stumbled upon a wonderful “legal” device with which to shield their dirt.  Permit me to share a story here.

About a month ago, I received a distraught phone call from a Muslim sister who had AGREED to enter one of these so-called mut’a marriages. Because I happened to know the guy she married (or mut’aed), the sister thought that I should “do something” to “warn the community” about the trail of tears he’s been leaving. She went on to say how she’d been cajoled into the mut’a arrangement after meeting the man online, but was assured it would be made permanent once he was “able to divorce his other wife and get his affairs in order”. She was unusually frank in relating to me how this man had his complete fill of her sexually (to use her words, “he went through me like water”) only to vanish when he was done.

But before he rolled out she claims to have suffered massive hemorrhaging, the result of a miscarriage that all the stress and humiliation had caused her. She called all around looking for the brother but to no avail. Even the boy’s parents, whom she met once or twice, were covering for him. When he finally did re-appear she was treated to a rant about how he didn’t “need her drama” or want her anymore. She ended up declaring that the brother must be stopped because not only is he a serial womanizer, but has mental problems as well.

So there you have it, another incredible tale from the Muslim crypt. Did I feel badly for the sister after hearing her story? Of course I did. Did I want to heed her cry and reveal the identity of this particular culprit and his deceitful ways? Initially I did, but on second thought I changed my mind. The reason? Going after marriage criminals is not only useless, but also thankless.

At the end of the day, as long as the proportion of Muslim women to men remains so frightfully high, the mut’as, stranger-marriages, misyar marriages, right-hand possessions, and simple fornication and adultery will not only continue, but I believe increase. That’s why I’m out of the “warning” business when it comes to this issue, because sisters involved in these hook-ups (because that’s what they are) are not as innocent as they want us to believe.

The decision a women makes to lay down with a man is an extremely personal one, and once made no one can stop her from doing it; not her father, brother, so-called wali, no one. And that’s the bitter truth.

I had intended to write a detailed and scholarly article on the history of mut’a and all of the controversy surrounding it, but thankfully I was talked out of it. I say thankfully because it is pointless. It is also pointless to “warn” the “community” about who exactly these womanizers are because the women are the ones creating the demand side of the equation. Does any blogger have the power to stop a women from becoming intimate with a man she met on the Internet and agreed to “marry” temporarily? I don’t think so. No scholarly dissertation is going to halt that.

The bottom line is, no one appreciates it either. For the past year I have been trying my best to “warn” the “community” about shady characters among the Muslims, and all it has caused me is grief. I even went after a well known radical Imam for soliciting prostitutes and no one lifted a finger in support of it. In fact, the Muslims are trained to support corrupt Muslims and to hound and abuse the whistle blowers. “Cover your brother’s faults” is the most beloved hadith of the criminals and their supporters, and is consistently thrown in the face of the “warners” every time they attempt to address the corruption.

As I said earlier, I don’t even pretend to have any answers on this one. All I will say is that we are all grown-ass people, and no one should look to anyone to “protect” the “community” because first of all there is no one to do it, and second of all, the fools who’ve tried were never supported. It’s time to use common sense and “do for self”. Everybody is on their own.

Comments
  1. Peace and blessings.

    Your position is well warranted and reminds me of an incident that polarized a so-called muslim community in New Jersey. Apparently, a muslim brother was molesting his daughter and was finally arrested after a neighbor and teacher reported him. The majority of the so-called muslim community supported the brother and the wife and her children (who sought shelter after leaving him) were ridiculed and banished. This left a very bitter taste in my mouth and caused me to disassociate myself from this particular masjid. As a matter of fact, many brothers and sisters followed suit and left behind this insanity.

    Stay strong.

    ASA.

  2. ahu says:

    Thanks so much for writing honestly. In your cynicism, you speak for many burned out Muslims.

  3. DC Muslimah says:

    This is very sad!!!

  4. Khadija says:

    You’re not the only one who’s cynical about this issue. No, these women are not helpless victims. They are complicit in their own exploitation.

    The evil of Muslim Black women being exploited is usually the result of another problem: Far too many Muslim Black women became Muslim in order to please a man! Since they came to the deen to humor a man, this motivation sets them up to be (willingly) exploited by the man who they accepted Islam to please. As the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) taught, actions are judged by intentions. Since many of these women’s original motivations for coming to the faith were deeply flawed, it’s no surprise that what follows from that original motivation is deeply flawed.

    Wa Salaam.

  5. by trying to give her some precautions in dealing with a notorious brother, but in the process, I was slandered. Sisters are going to do what they are going to do, but some are honestly duped. It is a careful balance. You can only try to protect those you love and those who respect your judgment. Otherwise, you will be vilified as a hater, a back biter, or a slanderer, when if fact you are just trying to protect some of the most vulnerable women on the face of the Earth.

  6. foreverloyal says:

    Well, that was depressing.

  7. Ihssan says:

    Very excellent post. Thank you for blogging about these issues.
    -Ihssan

  8. Margari Aziza Hill,

    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. Please clarify who was “slandered”. Are you saying I don’t love the Muslim sisters? Margari what are you saying?

    “Sisters are going to do what they are going to do”

    My point exactly, that’s why they are on their own.

    “… but some women are honestly duped”

    Let me get this straight; a women who agrees to “marry” someone “temporarily” on the Internet, even while he is married to another women he plans to divorce was, as you say,”honestly duped”? That’s what you believe?

  9. Hamza 21 says:

    First off i would like to say a temporary marriage whether the Shi’ah kind (Mut’ah) or Sunni way Misyar has a purpose: To legally allow a man and woman’s sexual desire to fulfilled. That’s it. If any one foolishly believes Mutah/Misyar will lead to anything more than that they shouldn’t be engaging in something they don’t understand. It is possible for the situation to progress to a complete marriage but not probable. The chances are slim when one of parties involved (usually the man) has no desire to change the arrangement.

    As far warning anybody one should of course always speak truthfully and cleary without malice or embellishment. This is the way of Prophet & His companions.

    By reading your blog Abdur Rahman you seem to miss the distinction between speaking out and slandering. Your “warning” about a “radical Imam for soliciting prostitutes” was an attacked not helpful nor needed. The incident you were referring to happened years ago and who knows if this Imam has corrected his behavior or not.Which you didn’t provide any evidence he hasn’t done so and is still engaging in disgusting behavior. In Islam we need evidence to substantiate allegations not speculation of using past behavior to convict and slander someone.

    Disagreeing with Imam, as I did as well, on his position about voting is one thing character assassination is another.

    @ Brother Tarikh Bandele

    You stated many of a particular masjid sided with the husband over the wife but what did you do point out this behavior was against Islam?

    We can all bring forth stories of bad behavior by our fellow believers. However it is every believer responsibility to speak the truth when they witness something against the principles of Islam regardless of how many or who maybe upset with your words.

    The problem will remain so if every who was troubled by this behavior or that action refuses to speak out. By speaking out we encourage those who disagree to view things in different perspective and perhaps, if we speak wisely and justly, they will change their behavior and thinking.

    When viewing haraam things with very own eyes and silence is not an option. We shouldn’t be afraid to speak out when it’s imperative to do so.

    “To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and on earth and to Him is duty due always: then will you fear other than Allah?” (16:52)

    “It is only the Shaitan that causes you to fear his friends, but do not fear them, and fear Me if you are believers. (3:175)

  10. leila says:

    I agree with Khadija. It takes two to tango.

  11. Khaalid says:

    @ Hamza21

    So are you defending mut’ah marriage? Would you like for YOUR sister or daughter to be in a mut’ah marriage? Mut’ah is a great evil and is nothing more than prostitution. PERIOD. I am surprised that so many brothers defend this now. Is marriage now nothing more than fulfilling sexual desires now?

    Abdur-Rahman is correct. If you try to warn people that a man was known for wife beating or some other abuse of women, it is the person that WARNS that will warned against and the person who is guilty will be defended. THEN when the sister is mistreated, she wants YOU to come and fix it. No, no, no, no. I stuck my neck out on the line to try to tell you that this guy was bad news and I was the one attacked for it. That is the common storyline.

  12. Hamza 21 says:

    I’m not defending Mut’ah I’m not from the Shi’ah. You are correct brother Mut’ah is prostitution. However Misyar is both halal and beneficial.

    In Islam two consenting adults who make a legal agreement to engage in sex practices in NOT considered wrong providing there are stipulations in marriage contract for exchange of rights. A woman gives her right of full maintenance as expected by wife for exchange of companionship and a sexual partner and a man gives up his rights over the woman to fulfill the duties of wife in exchange for companionship and a sexual partner. As long as both parties agree to this there’s no haraam that takes place.

    On practical level the contract should include what will entail should a pregnancy occur. Otherwise Misyar can cause as many problems to the woman and child as many non-muslim women experience having a baby out of wedlock in today’s society.

    You can look at it this way:
    if man marries a woman and they both decide they will not live together and only see each other once week to have sex why is that wrong? Who says a man must live in the same household as his wife and must see her everyday? If they both decide to arrange their lives this way what business is it of yours? A husband and wife can arrange their lives in anyway they seem fit as long it does include haraam practices. If you choose not engage in this that’s your choice. Misyar is not fard it’s mubah.

    Personally I don’t have neither a sister nor daughter. If I did I would advise my daughter or sister of what Misyar entails and make sure they understood the arrangement they are entering into. If they decide to enter into misyar agreement then I wouldn’t have problem with it.

    If my sister/daughter wanted to exchange her rights in order to engage in sexual intercourse and have companionship of particular male who am I to say this is wrong when Allah and his messenger has allowed it. If she decided that sex with this man for weeks,months or years was more important to her than waiting for a proper husband then that’s her decision. It is allowed in Islam.

    Furthermore, YES sexual fulfillment is part of marriage. A husband or wife can divorce their spouse for not gratifying them sexually. Sexuall fulfillment in marriage is a haqq, a right ,of a husband or wife.

    ===================
    “If you try to warn people that a man was known for wife beating or some other abuse of women, it is the person that WARNS that will warned against and the person who is guilty will be defended.”
    ===================

    And that excuses you from speaking the truth. So you will only stand by principles when others will do so also? No disrespect my brother Khaalid but that’s the way of cowards. As Muslims we stand firm in what believe in regardless if somebody is with us or against us. If you speak justly and somebody has a problem with it then that’s their problem. You give advice and somebody chooses to ignore it and bad consequences result from that that’s not your problem.You are not responsible for the consequences of somebody’s else actions and you shouldn’t feel guilty because of it.

  13. Salaams,
    Part of my post got cut off. I meant that I tried to warn a young sister about a brother, without exposing all the business or necessarily slandering him. But he slandered me, saying I spent a decade trying to get with him. Yeah right!!

    A lot of hipster Muslims and celebrity Muslims on their lecture/event tours use the misyar. They got some permission from a sheikh to basically do muta’a. Basically if the brother intends it to be temporary without informing the sister, it is not considered muta’a. A lot of the brothers who do this have a whole string of trainwrecks behind them. But it does take two to tango. I agree that you should tactfully offer some guidance to a hapless sister. The problem is a lot of these brothers prey on sisters from other communities, young girls, and new Muslims who don’t know nothing. So, we got to at least make sure they are walking into whatever situation with some protection. And by the way, who are the walis that are giving away these women in misyar marriages? Often, they are the dude’s homies. Sigh…

  14. Hamza21

    And the difference between what you have articulated and prostitution is what again?

  15. Khaalid says:

    @ Hamza21

    I am not going to bang my head against the wall arguing with these people that marry dozens of times in this misyar marriages. Let them do whatever since all of you believe this is “halal”. Do what you like since that is what is going on anyway. I hate that I ever wasted my time ever trying to “warn” people at all

  16. Abu Usamah al-Aswad says:

    @Abdur-Rahman

    Thank you for this post and the way you articulated it. This is a real cautionary tale to which brothers and sisters should heed.

    I myself have tried to advise sisters when asked about brothers to no avail, as the saying goes “women choose” and once their mind is set nothing can be done.

    Though there is not much we can do to control what two adults are intent on doing, but we have to try something

  17. “Mutah” and “Misyar” just do not strike me as spiritually sound because they could lead to serious problems for the women.

    What I do not understand is why would a woman born and bred in one of the most advanced Western country(U.S.), a land replete with laws protecting the rights of individuals, especially women, settle for this, just because the religion allows it .

    Today in the Muslim world, many rich Saudis and even middle class Muslims engage in these practices with lower class and poor Muslim women then dispose of them like garbage.

    Be careful encouraging the contiuation of traditions that may have been the result of customs from way back due to certain circumstances. This is why polygamy may have been alright in the past especially in agrarian sicieties, but today,with all the advancements and opportunities certainly not at all.
    Presently many women in polygamous societies antagonize whenever their husbands choose another wife.
    We have advanced too far to be still with some of these backward traditions.

    Let us face the truth, “mutha” and “misyar” are tantamount to fornication,adultery and prostitution. All those who practice or approve of them should not criticize married men in the West who keep mistresses or frequent prostitutes.

    Peace.

  18. Hamza 21 says:

    Prostitution is when a women or man exchanges money for a sexual act. Prostitution is all about a buying a sexual act. Misyar not just about sex but companionship as well. For many older women may not be able to find husbands Misyar can offer her a companionship AND a sexual partner.

    By all means a complete marriage is the best way but what is a person to do when they can not find a spouse? committ zina? Be lonely for the rest of their lives?

    In misyar and a complete marriage there is a contract where everything is spelled out and both parties agree to it before hand. Just because many were taken advantage of because they didn’t understand the purpose of Misyar nor their rights doesn’t make Misyar haraam. It makes the person who entered into the agreement without fully understanding the situation wrong. In Islam people are responsible their own behavior and knowledge.

    @ Gianella
    Misyar equals adultery,fornication or prostitution?..please.
    Adultery is treason against the family and theft of rights of spouse.
    Prostitution is exchange of money for a sexual act ONLY.
    Fornication is sex without obligations or rights
    Misyar is none of these things.

    Again Abdur Rahman explain how this is wrong:

    ==============
    “if man marries a woman and they both decide they will not live together and only see each other once week to have sex why is that wrong? Who says a man must live in the same household as his wife and must see her everyday? If they both decide to arrange their lives this way what business is it of yours?”
    =============

    I agree with sister Margari why are all these women entering into agreement they don’t understand. Which brings another topic forward: why are women allowing strangers to safeguard their rights? Women should choose a male relative as their wali or barring that a male who’s judgment they trust. Not just anybody and especially not a friend of the groom.

  19. Yusuf Abdullah says:

    “if man marries a woman and they both decide they will not live together and only see each other once week to have sex why is that wrong? Who says a man must live in the same household as his wife and must see her everyday? If they both decide to arrange their lives this way what business is it of yours?”

    Apply all of that to cohabitation without being married or homosexual marriage? What business is it of yours that they live that way right?

    The problem with misyar marriage is that so many “brothers of knowledge” have used these rules to marry several women. How can you establish a community upon the thinking that marriage like the above is acceptable? No wonder black Muslim communities are a wreck

  20. Abu Usamah al-Aswad says:

    @Abdur-Rahman,

    I still don’t understand “mutah” and “misyar” and frankly, I don’t care but we do need to addess marriage amonst Black American Muslims, because there are really good sisters who want to be married. MANA has even began a healthy marriage iniative.

    These issues can be tricky, for example I met a good professional well-paid sister who did not even live in the state as I do yet she wanted us to get married, yet she wanted to remain in her state and refused to relocate. After I considered it, I wouldn’t go for it, so the sister even tried to punk me by telling the elder I was seeking nasiha from that I was just scared and a chicken.

    The point is there are professional sisters who have careers and their own means yet want a good husband and are willing to deal with polygyny. So what is the need for “mutah” or “misyar” when you can have nikah? That’s like making tayammum when you could make wudu.

  21. Khadija says:

    Abdur-Rahman said, “At the end of the day, as long as the proportion of Muslim women to men remains so frightfully high, the mut’as, stranger-marriages, misyar marriages, right-hand possessions, and simple fornication and adultery will not only continue, but I believe increase. That’s why I’m out of the ”warning” business when it comes to this issue, because sisters involved in these hook-ups (because that’s what they are) are not as innocent as they want us to believe.”

    It’s not merely the numerical Black gender imbalance that’s causing this. It’s Black women’s (including Black Muslim women) fixation on marrying ONLY Black men that’s causing all of this misery. Meanwhile, Black men (including Muslim Black men) are NOT limiting their marriage pool to Black women. In the BAM context, there are the numbers of Black men who are purchasing Moroccan Arab women.

    Black women will continue to suffer as long as they continue to refuse to broaden their marriage prospects to include any quality, decent, loving man (irrespective of race). Black Muslim women will continue to suffer as long as they continue to refuse to broaden their marriage prospects to include any quality, decent, loving Muslim man (irrespective of race).

    Wa Salaam.

  22. Bint Will says:

    Hmmm, I thought the purpose of a Mysar marriage was to allow the parties a change to get to know one another in a halal manner without the consumation.

    Anyway, SOME sisters do not have any class, self-respect or standards. Recently one sister told me, brothers (black muslim men) shouldn’t marry other sisters BECAUSE…..DRUMROLL….. those sisters WILL NOT know how to bail him out of jail! ROFL. How sad, yet it speaks volumes about the mentally of our sisters.

  23. Hamza 21:
    You see how “mutha” and “misyar” are ot spiritually sound.

    Listen to Binta Will now blaming and insulting women for God knows what.
    It would have been for him to insult a woman who is not involved in mutha.
    Rich Saudis go to poor countries like Yemen, etc. and buy young girls for a short period of time, then return them used to their parents.
    Jusr remember in many Muslim countries virginity is a must for marriage.
    Anyone girl who was involved in any of these liaisons, so called protected within Islam is doomed and scarred for life.

    A woman could never be protected and respected within misyar and mutha.

    The question here is :Why would a woman settle for this type of relationship when she could get married and get the respect of a legal marriage?

    The answer is : Only women who are not taken seriously, or lower in status have to settle for” mutha” and “misyar”

    Peace

  24. Sister Seeking, Miriam, Mary Ann says:

    Salaam Alaikum,

    * It is a true tragedy that many BAM’s both men , and women do not understand that OUR religion COMMANDS personal responsibility in our affairs. Read Surah Baqarah. Read Sural Al Mumenoon. Being responsible; honoring your oaths and agreements; obeying the law; and responding to situations with appropriate force are laid out in the Qur’an. There is so much emphasis on: politics, international problems, and sectarianism that perfecting our character is completely ignored. The day I go to a local masjid and hear the Imam admonish the jummah for our lack of honesty, truthfulness, and sincerity in the agreements we enter into, versus, an inflammatory anti-Semitic khutba, is the day I will believe our community can heal. Until then, I’m not holding my breath. Yes, I think what is happening to my fellow Muslima’s and their children is horrific. But I think the real tragedy is that we lack an ethical system, a psychology, and the resources to become inwardly strong. That is the real tragedy IMHO.

    * We are NOT perfect people. Brother Abdur Rahman, I took a 10 week course during my sojourn with the UU church by NAMI ( National Alliance Mentally Ill). Brother, I learned a GREAT deal during those weeks. Possessing a college degree or being in a higher class tier does not protect individuals from mental illness. Furthermore, living in a prolonged state of stress, isolation, deprivation, poverty, and abuse can cause healthy people to break down, and become sick. The majority of BAM women ARE college educated, and they, like the working class and under class element ,are making POOR life decisions because they were suffering from an undiagnosed mental illness; some know they are ill and do not manage their condition and others have ended up becoming mentally ill as a result of their experiences inside our Muslim “communities”. This last part of my statement SHOULD NOT be IGNORED because this is why some in the non-Muslim community are hostile to ALL Muslims because they have a loved one or friend that was mentally stable PRIOR to conversion and ended up going off the deep end.

    * Predators know how to prey on weak minded people period. The other catch to this is– some times the Muslims engaging in this behavior ARE BOTH mentally ill. So what you have is people are sick mating and procreating with each other… what you have are people who bringing children into these situations and than loosing them to foster care… or to the juvenile court system.. You get my point.

    * I personally understand your frustration, exhausting, and disappointment with the whole “WARNER” issue. I have learned in real life ,and through blogging that when ever a Muslim but especially an African American who believes in thinking and choosing form themselves is usually attacked the following way:
    -You’re an FBI or CIA agent
    -You’re a Munafiq
    -You’re a pretend Christian missionary
    -You’re mentally ill ( that’s t heir favorite one, just like the Russians lol)
    -You’re emotional
    – You “ain’t got no knowledge ( I deliberately misspelled knowledge by the way.)

    For what’s its worth:

    http://www.nami.org
    You may also call our Information Helpline:
    1-800-950-NAMI (6264)
    Main Contact Information:

    National Association of Black Social Workers, Inc.
    2305 Martin Luther King Ave. S.E.
    Washington, D.C. 20020
    Phone: (202) 678-4570
    Fax: (202) 678-4572
    E-mail: nabsw.harambee@verizon.net

    http://www.coping.org

    by the way The National Assocation of Social Workers has the NOI listed on their website… how about that! : )

  25. Bint Will says:

    How am I insulting and blaming women by saying SOME do not have any standards or class? It’s the truth! No woman should expect her man or sons to experience prison. Prison is not a rite of passage into adulthood. Certainly, boosting of your skills at bailing a man out of jail is NOT anything to be proud of or share with others. Class can be learned. Self-esteem rebuilt or gain, and standards accquired. I stayed in a horrendous marriage in the past, because of low self-esteem, NEVER AGAIN. I’m speaking from experience, we (women) do dumb crap when we forget our worth, as well as listen to others who blame women for the ills within a marriage.

  26. Bint,I am sorry. I stand coreected. I agree with you.

    No one should be bailing anyone out.And only foolish women fall in love with jail birds.
    But I think it is more a problem of low self esteem. Most women who end up in those situations believe they cannot do any better.

    Peace

  27. Abu Usamah al-Aswad says:

    Salaams To All

    This a complicated issue yet we keep trying to force cookie cutter simplistic solutions. Yes, it should be discussed but let’s keep it real. Many of you seem to saying that only low status or low selfesteem sisters are doing this. It is simply not true what about the 40ish and 50ish sisters who have it going on with their own homes, money degrees, careers and or own businesses. Who want a younger husband, who they can have an intelligent conversation with and still get busy lawfully?

    They want to have permissable relations but keep it hush hush. Are they low selfesteem and don’t know their self worth?

    What about the “intellectual” sisters (different ages) who constantly though quietly and discreetly, are proffering themselves to those on the “celebrity muslim” circuit?

    The problem we face as BAMs is systemic, many of the BAM sisters are what I endearingly call “sister solidiers”, and while many men like the attitude of the sisters standing and supporting brothers, honestly this support is not always in the most productive ways. Historically, a sister being down with BAM brother while he deals with the criminal justice system has been a hallmark or a virtue, because quite simply being a consciencous black male usually meant you would eventually have contact with the criminal justice system.

    Another HUGE, aspect which isn’t being addressed is that Islam serves as a haven for black male masculinity, juxtaposed against the larger American society which seeks to neuter Black males.

    Again historically, Black Women “sister soildiers” stepped up to preserve the “maleness” of her sons and brothers, while helping to take of the family and to do so she HAD to take on a more male-like in-yo-face attitude.

    Also, these “sister soildiers” while they may be admired by brothers for their determination, intellect and beauty, brothers are reluctant to REMAIN married to them because its “TOO” much. which leads to battles for control of the relationship so brothers seek sisters who are more amenable

  28. Abu Usamah al-Aswad says:

    by no means am I excusing the “hilal players” and “joy riders” that crap must be stamped out but some “not ALL” of the sisters are not victims but rather conspiritors as they enter thes polygnous unions not to strengthen or become part of a family unit and be sisterly with her co-wife but to “take” the brother, “because if the first wife was doing what she supposed to, then he wouldn’t need a second wife” which is straight folly! In the sad tale above why would a sister even consider marrying a brother on the basis that he is about to divorce his current wife? Its haram to divorce simply because you want to remarry. So it was wrong from the get go.

    The solution is to start holding both brothers and sisters accountable for their respective roles in Islam and discountinuing the more notches in my belt “hilal player” mentality among brothers and to stop compounding problems by bring in alien western hyper-women’s lib theories and attempting to impossed them on Islam.

  29. Bint Will says:

    Abu Usamah, I have to disagree with you on this statement, “It is simply not true what about the 40ish and 50ish sisters who have it going on with their own homes, money degrees, careers and or own businesses.” These factors do not equate class or high self-esteem/-respect. Have you ever gone through P(rince’s) G(hetto) county into the upper middle class areas and noticed some of the homes are like shacks and the children are ill-mannered and out of control. The inhabitants have money (new money), but no class.

    Many high profile models, who the “standards” by which the world judges beauty suffer from low self-esteem. Many millionaires lack class (can we say Paris Hilton, her wealth and family name is NOT enough to buy her an atom’s ounce of class). I stand by a woman settling for less and selling herself short because of low self-esteem. Unfortunately, I have noticed SOME black women tend to validate themselves by “having a man.” You know the old saying, “half a man is better than no man!”

    I am sorry, when you respect yourself, regardless of your socioeconomic status, you will never allow anyone to humilate and degrade you, even in the name of Islam.

    As a black woman, I have never been down with a jailbird, and have no intentions of ever doing so simply because my father, brothers, uncles, and cousins did not go this route, so it’s something I have no desire to entertain. These are not muslim men, so I DEMAND MORE from black muslim men.

  30. Bint Will says:

    BTW, here’s one cookie cutter solution:

    Never make someone a priority who has made you an option!

  31. Abu Usamah al-Aswad says:

    @Bint Will

    respectfully, I believe you have missed my point, perhaps due to my articulation of it. The point I was trying to make is that for a “woman of means” why must she automatically be of low class or low self-esteem or needs to validate herself if she foregoes material maintence rights only, yet still wants all of the other full rights of nikah? Why is it always framed as brothers taking advantage, sisters take advantage of brothers as well.

    Why not call both sides back to what’s correct.

    In this society there is a market for both “call girls” and “call boys” so given the means women are just as capable of commiting sin and as men. That’s why we are all held equally accountable for our own actions.

    If you have a problem with polygyny that’s what you have to deal with or not it’s your choice. I don’t think the sisters I was thinking of when I wrote that have self-esteem issues. I am with you I dislike both misyar and mutah, as neither are beneficial for the cohesiveness of the community.

    Also, every brother who has been imprisoned should be not be broadstroked with the title jailbird. What about brothers who stood up for principles and were imprisoned? What about brothers who repented and changed their lives. alhamdulillah the men in your family have not exprienced prison, neither have I and I have a degree as well, yet neither of these facts blind me to the fact, that I have benefited from the sacrifices of brothers who have been to prison and did not obtain degrees. It’s not where you are from but where you at (ok that ended in a preposition, but you get my point)

  32. Bint Will says:

    I still fail to understand your point. To me it seems you are saying a woman with material and financial means has high self-esteem. I don’t buy it, but I digress.

    I am still under the understanding that misyar is for the couple to get to know each other WITHOUT consummating the marriage. Allahu alim, everything is twisted these days.

    Frankly, I have no problem with political prisoners. I am referring to knuckleheads, who are ignorant and lazy, yet blame “the man.” A degree doesn’t mean anything either. One of my grandfathers had a six grade education and was a farmer. If you spoke to him, you’d think he was a Doctor. This is what I mean, socioeconomic status doesn’t determine class, self-worth, dignity, yadda yadda. Being poor doesn’t mean you have to walk around speaking broken english, having multiple children out of wedlock by mulitple partners, and so forth.

    To each his/her own.

  33. Abu Usamah al-Aswad says:

    @Bint Will

    The last thing I have to say, is a statement was made that

    “Only women who are not taken seriously, or lower in status have to settle for” mutha” and “misyar””

    I was initially attempting respond in part to that. Although I am very much against misyar and mut’a, if sister decides to forego material maintence rights during the course of nikah because she has her own means, I’m not quite grasping how it is automatic that she is low class or low self-esteem or needs to validate herself or has humilated and degarded herself.

    While it is true that material and financial means do not guarantee (a billionair committed suicide here in Michigan) IMHO personal accomplishment is an indicator of some level of class and self esteem.

    What even more amazing is tenor and tone of some of the langauge that sisters are using toward sisters because of their poor choices.

  34. drigueWeise says:

    I see that you’ve been talking about this for quite some time and it has been going on for even longer. When is someone going to finally DO someething???

  35. loves my sisters says:

    check out, http://phillymuslimoon.bl;ogspot.com some insite on local muslim communities in philly

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