STAMP THIS specious variety of “Islam” which celebrates the slaughter of children Return to Sender. We have no need for it here in the United States and they can stop trying to feed it to us.
More below the jump
What do CAIR and MAS have to say about this butchery? Are they going to offer their usual convoluted justification for this depravity?
I can not understand how this can happen, and they try to say that THIS IS ISLAM?? They say that this filth our religion???
Gaza’s streets filled with joyous crowds of thousands on Thursday evening following the terror attack at a Jerusalem rabbinical seminary in which eight people were killed.
In mosques in Gaza City and northern Gaza, many residents went to perform the prayers of thanksgiving.
Armed men fired in the air in celebration and others passed out sweets to passersby.
Hamas stopped just short of claiming responsibility but issued a statement saying the group “blesses the (Jerusalem) operation. It will not be the last,” Hamas said in a statement.
A Singular Voice 
It’s disgusting. We have been talking about it in various circles here in the Middle East and I feel the Gulf widen with my Arab Muslim brothers. Al hamdulillah, I find the Arab sisters more human.
Ya’Allah! If for no other reason than tactics, don’t the Palestinians realize how they have just driven away any international sympathy for what is going on in Gaza?
My heart cries….
Salaam Alaikum,
PM
Peacefulmuslimah,
your first sentence said it all
I have been receiving some fair and unfair criticism of my position on the Palestinian question, especially from the classroom. In my personal life I have reached a new point on this issue as a Muslim, and almost any criticism of the Muslims with regard to how they handle themselves in this situation is considered ‘out-of-bounds’ by other Muslims. At what point can we criticize other Muslims, or disengage from those who promote this kind of activity? When I challenge some Muslims to reevaluate the issues I am told that I don’t support Palestinian self-determination. Do the above pictures depict self-determination? On another note, but related directly to this story, Libya’s ambassador to the UN pulled a stunt by stalling a press release by the UN condemning the agression cited above because Libya said the language was not balanced suggesting that Libya felt the Palestinian people were being picked on and Israel needed to be held accountable too. From an educator’s stance, too many people memorize a couple facts and a great deal of propaganda and walk away with an opinion, and as Muslims it becomes second nature for us to know who we should support, believe, reject, and disbelieve, etc. I too, am sick of that (H)Islam.
salaams.
this does not help the cause at all.
I have already made my comment here:
Where is the balance?
Your silence on the suffering and murder of our brothers happening over the last week, while rightfully condemning terrorism that happened yesterday, is disappointing, but I guess no longer surprising.
wallahu musta’aan
When our leaders tell us “The Qaim will correct this!” or “al-Mahdi will show the world true Muslims and true Islam!” but fail to tell us of the Coming of the Holy al-Qaim May 23, 1844/1260 AH, and hide from us the 40-year suffering at the hands of ‘Muslims’ that was the daily food of al-Mahdi, come in The Glory of God (1953-1892), we have little recourse but to claw at each other’s face, wanting to be submissive and obedient to the Lord, God Almighty, but thinking what our CLERGY want us to believe: God’s hands are chained up, and we should DO WHAT THE CLERGY WANT… which leads to killing children, beating women, setting these humans over other humans, pretending that God loves some of us but not all of us…
But there is hope, come in the Glory of God…
Charles sez:
‘When I challenge some Muslims to reevaluate the issues I am told that I don’t support Palestinian self-determination.’
There is no such thing as ‘Pali- self-determination’, the Arabs you call ‘Palestinians’ are not Palestinians, they are Jordanian, Syrian, Egyptian and Lebanese Arabs who started calling themselves ‘Palistanians’ after 1967. The Arabs could, and should have resettled them. And Israel should have got rid of her treacherous Arabs who enjoy all the benefits of a democracy including equality, but nevertheless want to destroy Israel.
That’s what its all about. Even if they succeed and destroy Israel the jihad continues in another 30+ theaters of war worldwide, until the world is Islamic. That is your ‘religion’, and your religion gotta go.
Any wanton attacks upon innocents is to be condemned out of hand. There is no justification. Same goes for employing those unable to be responsible for their own welfare as combatants or terrorist tools.
War, unfortunately, is mankind’s last resort to affect change when the diplomats and politicians fail to reach an agreement. When soldiers are sent in, people die, many times those who were not fighting and merely too close. We all would like to avoid such things, but then that was originally in the hands of the diplomats and politicians, and they failed.
Anyone who rejoices at such carnage is inhuman and not to be encouraged, but condemned. Silence is obviously not condemnation. We cannot remain silent and expect things to change.
sheik yer’mami, as an Israeli I –and every Israeli I know –utterly reject your assertion that the muslim religion “must go” as strongly as I and we reject your assertion that my country should have “got rid of” our Arab-Israeli citizens. Things are extremely complex in the Middle East. There are few areas of “black and white” and many shades of gray. Consider that Ismail Haniyeh heads up Hamas, dedicated to the destruction of my country –and his nephew, an Israeli citizen, proudly serves in the IDF.
Extremism is what must go. Acceptance and support for people who are specifically trying to kill innocent civilians must go.
It is very good to hear voices condemning these acts for far too often it is only the voices of the extremists that are heard. And that harms all of us who share this world.
A most refreshing change to read something like this on a Muslim web site.
Look at you all, you find one tame Muslim and you get all excited? pathetic.
Good Job! Your bravery in speaking out is a shining example of why America does not currently have the same problems which plague Britain, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, and so on. You demonstrate that it is not only possible, but imperative for American Muslims, like any other Americans, to feel 100% American. That the distinctive American culture is so welcoming that we may all feel and be completely American, without compromising religions or traditional values. That in fact the freedoms regarding those religious and other values are protected nowhere more fiercely than in America, and that therefore a Muslim in America is more free to be true to his faith.
I am a proud member of the Little Green Footballs crowd, and I would enjoy any opportunity to speak with you. We probably wouldn’t agree on many things (I see your “Democracy Now” thing up there, [shudder]), but I enjoy lively conversation.
I think that the key thing here is that CAIR is bad for America because CAIR is bad for American Muslims. Their vested interest in representing a supposed victim community is to maintain that status as victims, or else CAIR becomes irrelevant. This obvious conflict between stated and actual goals leads to the acceptance of all sorts of twisted logic and fallacious arguments. Thus, CAIR, despite the obvious benefit to the American Muslim community of doing so, cannot bring itself to condemn the massacre of eight students.
As a person familiar with most of the crowd at LGF, I think I echo the sentiments felt by most of us over there in commending you for speaking out , and in wishing you every success in raising a public alternative to the voice of hateful people at CAIR. I hope that you and your friends can one day bump CAIR from the exalted position it currently occupies, speaking for nobody but itself, representing nobody but itself.
Take Care.
Darrin Hodges,
I’m British and Jewish, I support Israel’s right to exist and largely blame jihadi movements, who preach Israel’s destruction at any cost, for the plight of Palestinians and Israelis. I find your “one tame Muslim” remark extremely repulsive and ignorant, as though there were not many perfectly decent Muslims to be found everywhere, and who are not in thrall to extremist ideologies. The reason for the excitement is that “political Islam” is on the march wherever there are Muslims, and writers like Abdur-Rahman who can defend Muslims from the ideological onslaught deserve to be acknowledged.
To Abdur-Rahman I might recommend taking a look at the Quilliam Foundation who do just that.
“Look at you all, you find one tame Muslim and you get all excited? pathetic.”
There is also this Muslim blogger speaking out against this as well
http://tariqnelson.com/2008/03/07/certainly-not-heroic/
Thank you Mr. Abdur-Rahman. If there’s any hope for us, it’s with real people like yourself, not agenda-driven lackeys like CAIR.
Comments are being deleted left, right and centre. This blogger just lost his credibility.
Considering this “tame Muslims” position could get him a death sentence by the radicals he criticizes, I would say his position is anything but tame and shows a courageous stand against violent, bigotry and slaughter.
Dom, I find your ignorance of the Qur’an to be repulsive. And inzax, “violent, bigotry and slaugher” was Mohammad’s stock in trade. It’s clear that few of you have actually read the Qur’an, hadith or sirat. This is a case of “good Muslims, bad Muslim”, get over it.
Darrin Hodges,
I’m familiar with the Qur’an, thank you, and as a non-Muslim my exegesis wouldn’t be relevant or qualified no matter how familiar. I’m happy to make my stand against jihadis, but if that stand were only supported by those who take a hard line such as yourself and not by other Muslims it would be entirely in vain. I find your position extreme and not grounded in reality – the reality being that there are millions of Muslims around the world who, if they gravitated more towards a jihadi position than a moderate one, would bring down all civilisation in no time. Unlike yourself or, say, Hizb ut-Tahrir, I have every respect for moderate Muslims. I would define an extremist as someone who discounts evidence not supporting his position – such as you in relation to this blog.
“Moderate Muslims” are a myth. And people like you are fooled by this every day.
No Islam
Know Peace
This blog entry [0] (which I inadvertanly comemnt-hijacked) has comments that eventually touched on what happened in Gaza. None of the Muslims were willign to say one thing about it.
[0] http://eteraz.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/helpline-for-muslim-youth-in-canada/
Charles, CARRY ON. It is the way out of the madness. Ignore the ‘no backbiting morons’, and ‘no moderate muslims’ nay sayers.
If you were the only one it would make no difference to what is right.
The only ones trying to squelch palestinian ‘self determination’ are hamas and fatah (the palestinian authority). The PA, in particular, is a creation of the the Arab elites and their Western elite allies (such as the British, who appointed Husseini to grand mufti).
A Muslim that truly cares about Islam will question why the Western elites have long sought to elevate and whitewash the most repressive Jewhaters amongst Muslims.
To ‘blame the Jews’ is merely falling for the same propaganda that has been used continuously for 2000 years, propagated by the same people that support the Western-elite appointed Muslims that are the only ones truly oppressing Muslims.
ahaha., The people bashing the Quran need to take a good lok at the torah. It isn’t all sunshine love and ponies there either. Infact, i seem to recall a decidedly genocidal theme in some parts…
:p
Is that a bagpipe in the first picture?
Simon,
Where in the torah does it mandate that non-Jews be subjected to dhimmi status and special ‘protection’ taxes? Where are Jews calling for the genocide of others?
They aren’t. The best you can possibly do is lie and say that Israelis are committing ‘genocide’, when the reality is that Israelis have treated palestinians infinitely better than the Egyptians and Jordanians did, which is why Palestinian population rates and infant mortality rates have both gone in a tremendously positive direction since Israel gained control of the territories in 1967. If the know-nothings stopped supporting the pa and fatah, regimes that kill those that seek to live in peace with Jews, there would have been peace in the region long ago.
You will note that Israel has never killed Jews that seek to live in peace with Muslims. Au contraire, Israel has laws against hate speech, has laws for freedom of religion, and has a society that is not ‘ethnically clean’ and free of non-Jews, unlike the proposed Judenrein states that the know-nothings support without question.
Oh, Simon. There’s always one with a silly comment like this.
When the Jews start quoting the torah when fighting their enemies, you’d have a point. Until then, your “comparison” is just ignorant. I’m surprised you didn’t throw in the Old Testament too to cover the Christian “crusaders” as well.
Regardless of the debate within Islam on who is considered a “true” muslim, it is the jihadis accompanying their continuous acts of murder and mayhem with scripture passages. Allahu Akbar anyone? They’re finding more than enough justification to continue on their bloodthirsty journey. We can only hope those that call themselves muslims will one day stamp out/marginalize the savages they say are giving Islam a bad name.
What’s the torah got to do with the Koran? And why in the world would Simon, who obviously knows nothing about either think that he would accomplish anything by using that old tired cliche?
ASA My dear and respected brother as always your voice is not singular there are many who find these acts repugnant. There is a trap being laid however soon there will be a cry for young Muslims to join a force to
fight the so called jihadis. they will be asked to go kill these radical muslims to prove loyalty to democracy.
The hate crime laws will be used to condemn parts of the Quran and certain Hadiths.
In describing the objectives of this new initiative, David Horowitz, President of the Freedom Center, said: “We are asking all campus groups to repudiate the genocidal passage in the Islamic Hadith which reads:
“The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: ‘The time [of judgment] will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews and kill them; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!’”
There will be a large debate on the word “magdoobi” and some so called moderate muslims will say to stop any controversy lets not say it. There will be a renewed cry for female Imams, and mixed gender
prayer lines.The ayat “THIS DAY I HAVE PERFECTED YOUR RELIGION”
will be judged to be only allegorical.
Yes my young brothers condemn wrong but don’t drink the deen kool-aid. Many will laugh, and say this is just the ranting of an old man, but only time will tell.
THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN A MAN WILL LEAVE HOME A BELIEVER AND RETURN A NON BELIEVER.
God bless you, Mr. Muhammed, for shining a light on what I have argued against for years, which is the idea that all Muslims support the radical fringe that perverts their religion. I know in my heart, and all fair-minded people should know, that this cannot be the case. FTR, I am a Catholic. As a soldier in Iraq, I met many wonderful Muslims with whom I was able to find common ground. To be sure, this was in large part due to the fact that I did not approach them with an attitude of innate superiority but rather with genuine interest in their values and beliefs. In any case, thank you for a courageous and human perspective. From your lips to (our shared) God’s ear.
Hello Mr. Muhammed — we all know there are truly innumerable Muslims who are interested in peace, in getting the best for their families and for their friends and their people and their country.
BE LOUD! The violent, imbecilic demons who have bastardized your religion MUST BE SHOUTED DOWN AND CHASED AWAY. Do not have fear of reprisal, do not back down if threatened, because YOU ARE RIGHT.
All the strength and blessings in the world be on you as you continue to fight the good fight.
“In the end it is how you fight, as much as why you fight, that makes your cause good or bad.” – Freeman Dyson.
Your faith, no matter the source, is what you do with it. Anyone can find passages in their holy books that can be used to condone war, hatred, and violence – that is our choice. To choose peace, even despite the holy words and the declarations from on-high, is the right and just choice. It is upon this that if and when we face the Creator we will be judged.
Be Well.
To Darrin Hodges:
Maybe the reason we get so excited about it is because most people would like to think that people are GOOD, and when we find one within a group of people we are told is the enemy of civilization, we think there might be hope.
It is a horrible conflict in the human heart, especially for Americans, who live and believe that people have a right to believe in God however they choose to do so [to the point that it does not interfere with anyone else’s rights or cause injury]. We want to live in peace, but when we are continually confronted with evidence of the violence perpetrated in the name of Islam, what in the heck are we supposed to think?
So yes, I am excited about this blog. I hope Mr. Muhammed SHOUTS HIS MESSAGE TO THE ROOFTOPS! And shuts down every CAIR office in this country. They are nothing more than disgraceful extortioners.
We need to see more good things coming from the Muslim communities in America. They are too too few and very very far between.
Mike, Thanks for this reference to the blog on Singular Voices… I attended a conference just last week and only then learned about attempts to make such blogs available to “citizen journalists” on the ground in areas like Occupied Palestine, Gaza and the West Bank… (areas of interest to me, there are others). The speakers are clear about their points of view… I agree that the attack is disgraceful, does not represent Islam and should not be considered as such — and my Islam assures me that the perpetrator(s) of such and act will answer for their misdeeds (although I am not the judge in the matter).
There are however there are a few questions that must be raised from the journalistic perspective (citizen journalists speak up) of fairness and balance. This is neither a religious or moral question — HOW IS IS THAT THESE SAME CAMERAS (media members & outlets) were not in Gaza as PALESTINIAN CHILDREN and civilians (the admitted count offered by media 100) were being blown apart by Israeli rockets… that we were told stopped briefly for the visit of US Secretary of State Rice — and then resumed with increased ferocity!
I do not support the killing of civilians, especially children, under any circumstances… I have several of my own and can only imagine the agony of the parents who are subjected to the death of a family member, especially a child… several of the those in Gaza were arm babies… The deaths of these children (all of them) exposes the degradation and disregard for the principles of international humanitarian law. Their deaths implicate both parties to the conflict as well as those not directly involved (like the US, Britain, etc.), but who, as third parties to international treaties, are legally bound to enforce principles that protect the children of this world.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/02/28/mideast/
Relatives inspect a Gaza City apartment in Gaza where a 6-month-old baby was killed in recent airstrike.
CNN’s report of comments by Israel’s defense minister Ehud Barak that his country “is ready for escalation” indicates his exuberation. While he may not have been standing in the street shouting as the we are told the Palestinians were; his carefully qualified statement, “We are not eager for [escalation] [but] are not deterred by it,” is also celebratory by it’s content — in addition to the fact that he was fully knowledgable that at least 20 Palestinians were killed … according to Palestinian medical and security sources … and that at least four of the dead were children — killed in a single airstrike on Jebalya refugee camp in northern Gaza.
If it pleases God, I will address this point to the “Moslem blogger” on Singular Voice as well. It’s easy to criticize on second hand media reports… the question is what are WE and citizens of the world doing to stop this carnage by occupation forces around the world? Occupation is occupation, whether it’s done by Israel or “Uncle Sam” — the good ole United States of America.
Mr. Abdur Rahman Muhammad- Thank you for your voice and your blog. Your American conservative fan,
-Steve
Waliakbar,
You might also ask where is CAIR when Islamists set off bombs in Pakistan, fire on innocents in Sudan, punish rape victims in Saudi Arabia or blow up mosques full of worshippers in Iraq. By their own count, over half of those killed in the recent incursion into Gaza were Hamas fighters, storing arms and firing rockets from civilian areas.
When Israel kills civilians it is a tragedy. For me, I don’t know how Israel should fight Hamas. If that were not happening Israel’s operations would not have been curtailed, which is presumably why Hamas every day invites such a response by firing missiles randomly into Israel. Israel tolerates a great deal of this knowing that civilian deaths are unavoidable in any effective response, but when they do respond they will not be aiming at empty desert in some attempt to match the ineptness of Hamas. It is a problem, and it is the tragedy, and it would end if Hamas were to opt for a permanent peace. Since Israel withdrew from Gaza, there is no cause for Hamas to be fighting there; but for the fact that they treated Israel’s withdrawal as a victory and a march towards occupying all Israel, spelled out quite clearly by their media every day and well established in their charter. This does not lessen the tragedy of innocent and child fatalities – but I find it difficult to see what else Israel should do. They are barely culpable in my eyes.
Meanwhile the “Muslim spokespeople” of CAIR and the like have nothing to say about many thousands of Muslims killed in “the Muslim world”. They have but one agenda. What say you?
My Albanian Bektashi Muslim wife has been dithering about renouncing her faith because of all the hate. If there were a few more vocal ‘good eggs’ like Mr Mohammed I’m sure she wouldn’t feel the need to…
Kol HaKavod!
go to http://www.python.wordpress.com
Brother Abdur-Rahman,
I see you are getting some support brother. Good. Tariq is getting some body-shots over there. We have work to do.
I am very happy to have stumbled onto this weblog and this article in particular. It was referenced in a comment on Ha’aretz forum – pretty much the only valuable piece of info there.
Any condemnation of the recent terror attack on Israeli citizens without referring to the wide-scale military invasion of Gaza and killing scores of innocent Palestinian civilians is at best ignorant. If Palestinian civilians are celebrating the death of their enemies, it’s because their enemies are sporting on killing Palestinian children. It is easy for us sitting in the comfort of our homes judging the morality of a people who have lost everything and are being humiliated every day in front of their families and friends by Israelis.
Celebrating the death of others is ugly but the uglier are the dreadful policies of the Zionist regime that have darkened the hearts of the Palestinian nation and have taken away their compassion so and so that they celebrate the death of innocent students.
“Any condemnation of the recent terror attack on Israeli citizens without referring to the wide-scale military invasion of Gaza and killing scores of innocent Palestinian civilians is at best ignorant. ”
-And ignoring the fact that Palistinian terrorists have been rocketing an Israeli town for months with thousands of rockets is not ignorant? How can you compare intentional targeting of civilians by terrorists to a military operation targeting only terrorists? It’s not that complicated, if you don’t attack Israel, they won’t attack you. You act like Israelis sit in a dark room smoking cigars, looking very evil, and planning and plotting how they can kill Pali civilians…when obviously killing civilians is really going to somehow benefit Israel?
Abdur-Rahman –
thank you for posting as a voice of reason and humaneness.
I am a Jewish Israeli, and my views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are probably best described as “right-wing”, but I assure you the vast majority of Israelis, right-wing or not, do not subscribe to such ignorant beliefs as shown by the likes of “Darrin Hodges” and “Sheikh yer’mami”. Israelis and Jews are not an enemy of Islam or Muslims.
I commend your moral stance, hope to hear much more of this from other Muslims sick of their religion being hijacked, and also hope you and others will not be deterred by the rants of ignorant Islamophobes.
Israelis and Jews are not an enemy of Islam or Muslims
Mr Israeli… stop beating yourself up. Anyone with eyes knows that Israel and Jews are not an enemy to anyone.
However, Islam has declared itself to be your enemy. Darrin and Sheikh are not “ignorant”.. on the contrary.. they are informed.
I too fell for the moral equivilence “we’re all just the same” bullshit until I studied Islam and history.
The Jewish People will forever be targetted by any Muslim who follows his religion completely.
You are ignorant if you deny it.
It’s taken seven years since 9/11 for those Muslims who claimed that their religions was being “hijacked” to start separating themselves from their jihadist brothers and cousins. I also get sick and tired of have been making by saying there is little distinction between Jewis patriots, conservative Christians and Muslim jihadists as if atheist fundamentalism is somehow a more superior religion – and irreligious religion at that.
So-called “Christian” countries like America don’t go to war in the name of Jesus, the Bible, and Almighty God though they may ask Their favor in the outcome of said war. These are wars fought for NATIONAL INTERESTS, not fought because of religious differences. Neither do the Jews scream Old Testament verses or cite the Torah to justify their wars against their Arab neighbors even when Israel is blind-sided by their Arab enemies. In virtually every case of western world war there were secular national authorities (be it a King, Queen, President, Parliament, Congress, secular dictator) who declared and advanced the cause of war for some worldly reason. In these wars its quite irrelevant as to what religion the various sides represented. It’s ridiculous for Muslim fundamentalists to see America’s war on terrorism to be essentially that of a Christian versus Muslim crusade. And its even more ridiculous to invoke memories of millenia-old Crusades when it was the Muslim Seljik Turks who kicked off the whole series of Crusades by murdering Christians making peaceful pilgrimages to the Holy Land and taking over lands in which Christians and Jews had a civilized hegemony.
Consider for a moment. We see Muslim fundamentalists/jihadists explicitly murdering Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, other Muslims and your garden variety infidel in the name of Mohammed, the Koran, and Islam. These cowardly murders are conduct expressly in the name of the Islamic religion. In the last three hundred years, name an instance where vast numbers of Christians went on rampages against Hindus, or Jews began murdering Buddhists over religious differences, or Hindus began exterminating atheists. If it happened they were immediately condemned by others practicing that religion.
What we essentially see in the modern world is Muslims with a chip on their shoulders believing that its them against the world. That’s how insular and self-righteous mainstream Islam has become and its no secret that many Muslims are acting out their envy and resentments due to the fact that they don’t even have the technological base to manufacture their own automobiles, aircraft or invent their own weapons of war. Most all of their war technology comes from the Chi-coms or the former Sov-bloc nations. The Muslim world has spent so much of their financial capital murdering one another and preparing for that great war against Israel when the 12th Imam appears that they’ve neglected the necessary civilizing infrastructure to meet the needs of their own people.
But maybe the Muslim world is turning a corner … or maybe it will become increasingly emboldened as they see Muslim radicalism flourishing in France, Germany and most of what now looks like Eurabia. If Islamic jihadists were winning the war against the West instead getting its collective arses kicked on legitimate battlefields, I wonder just how moderate some “moderate Muslims” would still be?
And as to the ridiculously false moral equivalence being made between Palestinian “children” being killed by the IDF and Jewish school children being murdered by Palestinian “holy warriors”, this is the kind of idiotic Orwellian double-think we can expect from people weaned on lies. To even suggest such a thing is to believe that Jewish soldiers are directly targeting Palestinian schools, pizza parlors, or wherever innocent children congregate is downright false. If some Palis kids are stupid enough to throw rocks at armed soldiers, then they’re the ones provoking confrontation. ‘Nuff said.
BTW, those who resort to ignorant made-up words like “Islamophobes” are the true scoundrels in all this. They’re the ones willing to stick their heads in the sand because of their politically-correct insanity. I suppose now one can’t honestly express an opinion critical of Islamic fundamentalism without being called an Islamophobe or even more stupid … a “racist”. Islam is not a race, it’s an ideology. And radical Islam has demonstrated itself to be little different than the ideology of Nazi fascism.
There no more exist Islamophobes than Hitlerophobes.
This has nothing to do with religion, it has more to do with Israel murdering nearly 120 Palestinians in the span of a few days, many of whom children. It has to do with Israel turning Gaza into the largest open air prison in the world, and for the last month admitting that they are purposefully trying to starve the Palestinians of Gaza into “submission”. They have no water, no electricity, no food, etc. Imagine how would you would feel if everyday you had to witness some of your neighbors being slaughtered or seeing tons of bombs dropping all around you and causing massive destruction.
And how about those peace loving chosen people of G-d gathering around and chanting “death to Arabs !” . Aren’t they supposed to be religious students ? Oh wait though, they read the Talmud. So that makes sense since the Talmud is the ultimate book of hate, where all non Jews are said to be subhumans.
Your screed of anti-Semitic drivel might be more convincing were you not to have fraudulently (and possibly illegally) represented yourself as “Charles from Little Green Footballs”.
However, your propoaganda – and erroneous represnetations about the Jews’ scripture – makes you easily recognisable to the rest of us as a Muslim.
Then you wonder why much of the western world hates Islam. You’re bringing many of us to consider rejoicing at Muslim deaths – an idea completely foreign to modern civilisations.
So, keep up your stream of hate, “Charles”. It harms only yourself and your fellow Muslims.
By the way, “Charles,” while you were propagating your anti-Semitic drivel, some Israelis were singing of peace:
I had a crayon box for you
Glowing, pleasant and fine,
I had a crayon box for you
Among which there are hot and cold ones too.
There was no red of the blood of the wounded,
I had no black of the mourning of orphans,
There was no white of the face of the dead,
I had no yellow of sands aflame.
I had orange of life’s joy
I had green of budding and blossom
I had blue of the bright sky
I had pink of a dream and rest.
I sat and I drew peace.
There Muslim world has too many like “Charles” and too few like Abdur-Rahman (or the Israeli-Yemenite-Jewish Ofra Haza).
[…] imágenes han sido tan fuertes que, incluso un blogger musulmán ha protestado enérgicamente contra la importación de este tipo de Islam a América (h/t LGF): STAMP THIS specious variety of […]
anti-Semitic, how so ? Palestinians are a Semitic people. Most Jews, however, are not Semitic. They are a Turkic people who originated from Khazaria, located in western Asia near modern day Kazakhstan. They then converted Judaism around 800 AD and moved west to Europe. Then finally they decide to invade Palestine. So you see, most of God’s “chosen” people aren’t really his “chosen” people. They are converts to Judaism, who have absolutely no ties to the Biblical Jews who did once live in Palestine. There still are Semitic Jews around today, they’re the ones that look just like Arabs. They’re also called Sephardic Jews, as opposed to the Ashkenazim (European) Jews that we’re all familiar with today. I hope you enjoyed this little history lesson. I wish I could tell you more but I have to go update my site, Little Green Footballs, have you heard of it ? Some “Palestinian” “kids” were just killed by an Israeli air strike AKA the kids were really militants or they volunteered to be human shields for Hamas because they’ve been taught their whole lives to hate and kill Jews, and to accomplish their Jihad (Religion of Peace)
“Charles of LitGrFt”… you rage about ‘120 dead’ but fail to mention that the brave Jordyptian ‘refugees’ (denied the right to return to Jordan or Egypt, from whence their forebears came!) fight Israel while HIDING AMONG WOMEN & CHILDREN, in a knowingly calculated effort to GET Israelis TO INADVERTENTLY KILL them, and then use these deaths AS IF it was the Jews who forced the brave jihadis to hide among women and children!
As for being God’s chosen people, the Jews were chosen as the ones to whom Jesus came in Sonship and Divinity, and the Jews were chosen to have the Lord of Hosts sent to the Holy Land, in chains, a prisoner of the Caliphate; where He established the House of the Lord atop Mount Carmel, in modern-day Haifa.
The Universal House of Justice is available to ALL HUMANKIND, Charles-f-LGF, even those of us who pretend to be the people we admire…
First to the author: Thanks for recognizing evil, and for speaking out about it. Terror is terror, regardless of rationale.
To the regular readers of this blog who are confused by the masquerade above, the real Charles at Little Green Footballs exposed a group of European Neo-nazis a while back who hate both Muslims and Jews. They now stalk blog to blog when he posts about something trying to stir up trouble. I think I recognize the person impersonating Charles above from the false history lesson. It’s most likely a Serbian nationalist nutball who hates all of Islam and pretty much anyone not Serbian and Christian.
It’s not Charles from littlegreenfootballs. The person using that name is lying, and Charles has made that clear on his website. In fact he has a link to this comment section.
If someone is such an utter coward that he has to use another mans name, then there is no need to pay any attention to him.
“Infact, i seem to recall a decidedly genocidal theme in some parts [of the Torah]”
But the Torah and its interpretation changed and adapted to fit with the changing reality on the ground. Today Jews no longer follow the instructions on who to kill and when.
Consider this:
What are the actions which, if a Muslim does them, he will be an apostate from Islam?.
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=31807&ln=eng
“The fourth category also includes those who think that carrying out the ruling of Allaah by cutting off the hand of the thief or stoning the married adulterer is **not appropriate in the modern age**.”
Return to Sender indeed.
See also:
http://tinyurl.com/2mqt8z
Ron. I agree. What a pathetic person.
“Charles from Little Green Footballs” is a pathetic impostor.
This “Charles” person is, as has been stated, not the real Charles of LGF. Here is a link to his post at his blog:
http://tinyurl.com/3c56ja
The real Charles request, if you would, that you forward this persons IP address to him so he can report this abuse.
Be Well.
Yes, thanks to the author for recognizing the evil of this Jerusalem act, and the insane counter-productive behavior of the Hamas govt in blessing it, and the horrid impression made by Gazan celebrations of it (broadcast by the Hamas govt itself).
Several bloggers here have brought up Gaza, either as a parallel, an excuse, or an extenuating circumstance. Michael Walzer is one of the leading political philosophers of our time, and a man of the Left. Here is his argument regarding situations such as Gaza:
When terrorists intentionally shoot rockets at enemy civilians, while hiding among their own civilians and using them as human shields, the responsibility for what occurs from the counterfire lies with the terrorists–AND ONLY WITHTHEM. They–and ONLY THEY–are responsible for the casualties among the civilians whom they intentionally hide among while shooting rockets at civilians.
Actually Thanos, if you knew anything about Balkan history, you’d know that there are no ‘Serbian nationalist nutballs who hates all of Islam and pretty much anyone not Serbian and Christian.’ There are only Albanian Islamists that lie and describe Serbs like this–the same Albanian Islamists who (with their Croatian clerical fascist allies) slaughtered the Serbs at Jasenovac.
The Croats and Albanians are the nazis, not the Serbs. You and Charles can spread your Serbophobic BS on his blog, where he banned me repeatedly, but I don’t have to shut up while you spread your lies here. Incidentally, the true supporters of Israel also support the Serbs, and don’t lie about them as you and LGF do.
Yael, you may be confused,
or you may be intellectually lazy over the ‘complex issues ‘ in the ME, as you may call it, but I am not. If you take your head out of your ass and learn about Islam from the Koran & the sunnah you will understand that each and every evil deed by the Muhammedans is directly related to those teachings.
The biggest problem is that our own people in Israel fail to educate themselves about the evil of the Islamic ideology. ‘Kill every Jew that falls in your hands’ +’wipe the unbelievers out to the last’ including the talking stones and trees that say ‘oh Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him’ is quintessential Islam.
What is it that you don’t understand about that?
No Chuck, not a Serbian ‘nationalist’ whatever that is. I’m an Atlanta Jew that supports Israel, not unlike Ted Belman, Felix Quigly, Francisco Gil White, Jared Israel and others that have the guts to deviate from the State Department issued lies that you peddle on your LGF website.
I’d have to assume that you do it deliberately, for nothing else would explain your quick trigger finger when it comes to banning all truthtellers when it comes to the Balkans. And there are others: Robert Spencer, Julia Gorin, Andrew Bostom, all the people that write for savekosovo.org…
When you (knowingly) lie about the Serbs, you are supporting the same fascist forces that seek the destruction of the Jewish state.
Like moths to flames.
The person I’m referring to in particular is a pan-serbian nationalist nutball who hates jews and muslims. I nowhere said that all Serbs were that way. You seem a mite sensitive.
My bet is that jimbob is a weatherman.
thanos,
Just out of curiosity, is there evidence of *any* Serbs being the way you/Charles describe?
Here’s why I ask: there are a myriad of newspaper articles, largely from the 1980s and prior, that fully describe the desire of the Albanians to create an ‘ethnically clean’ greater Albania (this culminated in Kosovo, of course). The Serbs did not partake of such ideology, and Serbia has over 20 different nationalities and languages spoken.
Can you provide *any* primary source evidence of anyone ever calling for ‘greater Serbia’? You can’t b/c no one has ever done so. Some Serbs are bad, and they were punished. But this does not excuse the wholesale slander of a peaceful people. And the same media that says how bad they are says nothing bad about their enemies. This is the ‘smoking gun’ that the media coverage is quite biased, not unlike MSM coverage of Israel.
You aren’t getting it. I am referring to a particular serb, not all serbs.
Do a search on black hand if you are interested in Pan-Serbian nationalism. Oh, you say you forgot how WW I was started?
fair enough there are good Serbs and bad Serbs. I’m familiar w/how WWI started, but I’m not super knowledgable about the various factions. My interest started upon learning about the lies that were used to justify the NATO bombing in the 1990s.
All history I’ve read indicates that the Muslims in the region have long tormented and killed the Serbs. There are numerous pictures, some from 1900 or so, showing Balkan Muslims with the decapitated heads of their enemies.
Suffice it to say, that current geopolitical alliances have caused those of us in the West to be presented with an extremely inaccurate picture of what has been going on over there for the past 60 years or so.
Is there evidence to corroborate what I say? Sure. Read about the words and deeds of Izetbegovic and Tudjman. Then read Milosevic’s 1989 speech at Kosovo field, which was supposedly all about hatred and ‘nationalism’.
Once you do that, you’ll see that I’m telling the truth. Case closed. The question then is: why is LGF so obsessed with banning people that tell the truth on this issue.
#52 “Charles from Little Green Footballs”: You don’t need to spew a lot of standard white supremacist propaganda and put Chucky’s name to it to make Chucky look like a Nazischwein. The real Chucky and his goose-stepping lizardoid minions do that just fine on their own, and that they save their venom for Muslims rather than Jews makes no difference whatsoever.
And yes, “Karridine” and “sheik yer’mami”, I’m talking to you.
You’ll have to ask Charles why he bans people, I don’t speak for him. I’ve been there a while and never once saw someone banned who did not deserve it. This is a thread about terror in Israel, but you are going on about Serbia, seems like you are a singular track person.
Go for it, Thanos… but you may be just like Stevie Wonder, at his “Concert for the Deaf”…
More importantly, above Serbia and Serbians, above Jews and Israel, and above Muslims and Islam, is the Holy reality brought by the Qaim (The Bab, May 23, 1844/1260AH) and Baha’u’llah (1853-1892).
When the world’s clergy continue to turn people AWAY from those Twin Holy Ones; when this world’s clergy collaborate with political leaders to manipulate SINCERE, INTELLIGENT people into the commission of atrocities on ANY population; it is then that we see why the Glory of God stated that “The present-day order is lamentably defective… soon will God roll it up…”
The Oneness of Humankind; the equality of men and women; the necessity for each human’s independent investigation of the truth; each human’s God-given right to RECEIVE all that Baha’u’llah brought…
THIS is what Abdur Rahman and others like him are diligently searching for, and can now investigate with ‘eyes to see, ears to hear’…
Just a note, Sheik yer mami is banned from LGF.
Sura 109, I have been explicitly requested, BY Charles, to refrain from posting about the al-Qaim and al-Mahdi, at LGF.
I am NOT an all-conforming ‘Lizard’, but then I doubt if many posters at LGF are, either.
All best to you, Sura
I’m sorry that filth is Islam.
Really. It has got to be a torturous dilemma for you. Islam speaks to you on, literally, every issue in your life, your manners, your personal cleanliness, your finances. Either you find a way to understand and embrace this filth, or your entire way of life is cast adrift.
I am struggling to find a supportive thing to say. This is the best I have for you:
It is not Islam but you that executes your life every day. You will still be a good man, whether some Imam or another approves or not.
Post 54 is where it was introduced into the thread. I don’t like to see the enemies (i.e. ‘victims’) of Islam lied about, be they Serbs or Jews.
I’ve read that there are Serbs that are upset with American Jews, who were bamboozled into supporting the wrong side, but they have no problems with Israelis at all. Israel knew what was going on, knew the truth, and supported the Serbs. Study the issue deeply, it’s quite fascinating, and you’ll see why Israel supported the right side.
But in the big propaganda game, the Serbs mostly stay out of it. And thus, the fact that they are so demonized is the result of this.
Obssessive.
There are minorities of haters everywhere, and the lie is their weapon. Like the neo-takfiris in Al Qaeda, it’s the moderates they first attack.
There’s still time to come to Jesus.
You don’t have to be in your sins anymore, see link.
Challenge yourself Muslims
Faith Freedom.Org
The webmaster her fears free thought, he keeps removing my posts
Since Jesus will never arrive, there’s always time for him. You Christians are quite the hoot.
Napenthe: How witty. I wonder if you’ll be laughing when the Muslims rape your mother in front of you , and then mutilate your father before disemboweling you , alive. As they’re prone to doing.
Jews are Khazars… an old antisemitic lie. Jewish DNA, both Sephardic AND Ashkenazi (So called Eurpoean Jews) shows a common Middle Eastern heritage almost identical with Arabs.
My wife has a family tree with each and every name going back to King David and I have one going back to Aaron, brother of Moses our Teacher and the first High Priest.
Why do some Arabs and anti-semites perpetrate this myth? Because if Jews ARE the descendants of the Israelites, then they have an historic, legal, moral, ethical, nation and religious right to Land of Israel. Simply put, lie about the Jew’s heritage and you can justify “driving them into the sea.” Too bad tradition, heritage and science proves you wrong. Where to go from here?
Quoth Chucky, the real one this time:
Mheh. Thing is, though, I seem to be the only “troll” (read: sane person) among the lizardoids and ex-lizardoids in this thread. The rest of them are the garden variety goose-stepping sort.
Judah HaKohain,
Would I be right to assume you are the ultimate antisemitic troll? (I only ask so that others take note.)
I left Islam recently. Not because I feel Islam is bad, just because I feel belief in general (and I do not by any means include only religious belief in this) is dangerous. Muslims could not support the murder of innocent Jews (nor, for that matter, could Americans support the murder of Muslims and of innocent Arabs of all religions) if we did not accept views that had no analogue in reality, i.e., “us” the chosen pure whoever, and “them”, the easy to dehumanize other. I appreciate that Muslims like you are willing to break ranks and denounce not only the attack, but the justifications that are inevitably to be offered up. Best wishes.
I see sura is still upset over getting embarrassed at LGF and then booted. Hahahahaha.
Well, first of all, I just want to say thanks for speaking the truth. It’s hard to know what the percentages are in terms of how many muslims cheer when such things happen, and how many are revolted. I’ve seen opinion polls that would indicate something like 90% of palestinians rationalize these types of attacks as justified and proper. Worldwide, it’s hard to say. I’m curious to know what you guess the breakdown would be percentage-wise if you had to guess. I would say it’s probably pretty evenly split- there’s a lot of hate out there- but I could be wrong. At any rate, there are definitly a lot of muslims- not you obviously- who have somehow managed to rationalize the intentional killing of the innocent as a justified means to an end. Whatever the percentages are, I can say this for sure- God will never allow such people into his kingdom. These people are headed to only one place when they die, and there are no virgins there I assure you. Here’s a link that may make you sad in your heart of hearts- it’s about Al Queda in Iraq strapping bombs to mentally handicapped women and detonating them in busy marketplaces- all in the name of Allah…sigh…
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8UHNN081&show_article=1
It never fails to amaze me what evil people can rationalize in God’s name. I promise you that there will one day come a day of reckoning for these people, and I pray with all my heart that that day is soon. Again, I thank you for speaking truth as God gives you the ability to see it. If there is hope for Islam and the West to find common ground, and peacefully co-exist in this world, then surely it must begin with people like you standing up in righteous outrage that such things should be done in their God’s name….God Bless You
I think the question needs to be asked; why didn’t any media outlet in America show these images from the Israeli incursion last week?
I don’t know Lex, I didn’t see any pictures of mangled Israelis either if that makes you feel better. I guess Israelis aren’t into parading their dead and injured for the cameras.
Lex hates it when Jewish people defend themselves. I dont see Lex complaining about the over FOUR THOUSAND missiles that Hamas has fired toward Sderot.
Lex is just your typical Jew-hating paranoid who lives in a shadow world of conspiracy and delusion.
When I see one person having the courage to stand up and speak God’s truth when many others around them are silent and afraid, I think of this passage from John Milton’s “Paradise Lost”. It refers to the angel Abdiel- the only one of Lucifer’s leigons who returned from hell to fight on the side of heaven-
“So spake the seraph Abdiel faithful found,
Among the faithless, faithful only he,
Aong innumerable false, unmoved,
Unshaken, unseduced, unterrified
His loyalty he kept, his love, his zeal,
Nor number, nor example with him wrought
To swerve from truth, or change his constant mind,
Though single. From amidst them forth he passed,
Long way through hostile scorn, which he sustained
Superior, nor of violence feared aught;
And with retorted scorn his back he turned
On those proud towers to swift destruction doomed.”
God- speaking to Abdiel- says the following…
“Servant of God, well done, well hast thou fought
The better fight, who single hast maintained
Against revolted multitudes the cause
Of Truth, in word mightier than they in arms;
And for the testimony of Truth hast borne
Universal reproach, far worse to bear,
Than violence; for this was all thy care
To stand appoved in sight of God, though Worlds
Judged thee perverse.”
Just before the battle between Heaven and Hell, Abdiel adresses Lucifer-
“But thou seest,
All are not of thy Train; there be who Faith
Prefer, and Piety to God, though then
To thee not visible, when I alone,
Seemed in thy world erroneous to dissent
From all; my sect thou seest, now learn too late
How few sometimes may know, when thousands err.”
It’s fiction of course, but I really do think that Milton correctly captures the essence of God’s love for his servants who speak his truth, and do his will, even when they find themselves alone in a crowd. I know that God will reward you one day. Just keep speaking the truth. Nothing else matters…
Dom:
Israelis aren’t into firing shots in the air and passing sweets in the streets to celebrate the slaughter of schoolchildren either, may I add.
I
Lex, a majority of the voters in Gaza decided they wanted unlimited war with Israel. Nobody made them do that. They decided all on their own. They elected a party with that as its central platform and promise.
I remember Israelis forcibly evicting Israelis from their homes to GIVE Gaza to the people living their now.
It’s way too late to be whining about dead children in Gaza now. The people in Gaza can’t hide behind some dictator or Imam. They have voted to have their children killed, because that’s what happens in a war.
Here are the choices Gazan’s have after starting this war: surrender or die.
I’d suggest surrendering before it gets serious.
Thank you Mr. Abdur-Rahman for this blog post. The world today sorely need more righteous Muslims such as yourself.
Meant “needs”, bears repeating.
I suppose Gazans have one other choice.
Destroy Israel all by their lonesome, because nobody else in the middle east dares try take Israel on toe to toe. Hezballah called it a win when they were only ALMOST beaten to death.
Good luck with that.
Vince P and others possessing the same mind. I simply posted an article from a blog, written by a Jew in Israel and I receive this vitriol? The very fact that I did, the very fact that the uniformity of opinion has sought to level the nail, after I have been deployed to defend those very ‘rights’ that enable you to castigate me? Well, I am feeling better already.
Lex, I’m seeing a story about how Israel has been terrorizing a mythical country called Palestine. Either Desertpeace is writing a fiction book or he’s not in close contact with the real world.
Are you holding this forth as something other than fiction?
It’s ironic that you, whose handle is an obvious Utopian fiction ( Unjust laws exist. Get over it. ), would propose that Israel has been using terrorism against anyone.
I’m glad nobody took political cheap shots and turned Abdur-Rahman’s heartfelt and admirable sentiment and turned it into another “Israel rules! No, Arabs rule!” crap-slinging match. That would have been unfortunate.
Oh, wait, haha.
Abdur Rahman Muhammad, I applaud and thank you for your public comment. I will presume it to be sincere. It is one I would honestly not have expected from one of your faith. Continue on this path in good health.
Abdur Rahman Muhammad, I applaud and thank you for your public comment. I will presume it to be sincere. It is one I would honestly not have expected from one of your faith. Continue on this path in good health, and may you find the Qaim and the Mahdi as others before you have! 😀
Return to Allah ta’aala?
These ‘students’ were soldiers studying at a seminary that grooms zionist shock troops.
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/En/default.aspx?xyz=U6Qq7k%2bcOd87MDI46m9rUxJEpMO%2bi1s7xuuuYm7oomTPYJk4BeOWi9mLJClAaA63K5veXEh2NaO3xfRKU1H1tafb1RMerIE1CDIHjC9ZHY6M009NrGmnxpzZRGkXe%2b%2fS%2f2aYKRl62IM%3d
Allah ta’aala says “O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.”
Qur’an 49-6
Agence France Presse says that most of those killed were 15 or 16 years old. None was a soldier. Some might in the future have done Army service as rabbis (chaplains).
You people all completely missed my point about the Quran. Telling me i “know nothing” is ridiculous, i went through my entire schooling at a jewish school! My parsha for my barmitzah was pinchas, about a zealot who murders 2 people for having sex outside of their respective ethnic groups (one of course jewish) and he is praised as a hero!
That’s pretty sick. SO was the clearing of canaan, where god orders the israelitis to clear the land of it’;s inhabitants. Strikes me as a genocidal theme.
The point being that these books are all archaic and backwards. The only redeeming quality is that when people choose to ignore the uglier parts of the torah, it can work out, which is exactly what’s happened with judaism. Nobody follows pinchas’s bloody example any more, despite the fact that god was apperantly very favorable towards killing people for choosing their sexual partners freely.That’s why muslims call it corrupted, in some sence it has been.. That’s a godo thing though, i think the quran is next in line for a healthy dose of blasphemy.
Some of you people are really pretty sick,. you know that? I’m guessing your the vlaams belang types…
Jimbob
Who said the ISRAELIS are committing genocide? I was talking about the israelites in the old testimant. For god sakes, try reading through a post before you start misrepresenting my positions.
k, so at least somebody got my point.
thx MyJoy
Lex injusta non est lex – March 9, 2008
Vince P and others possessing the same mind. I simply posted an article from a blog, written by a Jew in Israel and I receive this vitriol?
Yes. Your post had no point. You removed all context that resulted in the deaths in gaza, specifically to deflect the responsiblity of those deaths from Gazans to the Israelis.
In other words, you’re engaging in spreading misinformation deliberately. You should receive vitriol. If you are sincere and actually give a damn about the people of Gaza, where is your outrage at Hamas for provoking attacks onto their own people? If there was no provokation, there would be no Israel attack.
The very fact that I did, the very fact that the uniformity of opinion has sought to level the nail, after I have been deployed to defend those very ‘rights’ that enable you to castigate me? Well, I am feeling better already.
Please dont feel like a hero. If said the sky is fill of cotton candy and received back a uniformity of opinion that you’re crazy, would you feel so pompous ? Or just stupid.
Annndd…. the supposedly “tolerant” muslim’s wiping out comments. Figures.
Ecclesiastes, of course Israel has used terrorism against others remember the bombing at the King David hotel? As far as ‘unjust law’
perhaps you need a survey course in jurisprudence,philosophy or classics? The will of the sovereign is not always law.
Vince,
“If you are sincere and actually give a damn about the people of Gaza, where is your outrage at Hamas for provoking attacks onto their own people? If there was no provokation, there would be no Israel attack.”
I will simple ask, do you know with certainty whether Hamas fired the rockets? One thing I know with certainty, is that people in Palestine and Lebanon (Maronite Catholics) are now displaying cancerous effects from the use of depleted uranium shells deployed and used by Israel and they were sold to Israel by the US. But what would you know about that? The wars you fight in are virtual. You see, I told you I was feeling better but now I am feeling great!
I will simple ask, do you know with certainty whether Hamas fired the rockets?
That’s a very good question Hmm.. perhaps you’re right. I bet the Amish did it!
One thing I know with certainty, is that people in Palestine and Lebanon (Maronite Catholics) are now displaying cancerous effects from the use of depleted uranium shells deployed and used by Israel and they were sold to Israel by the US. But what would you know about that?
Let me reply with the same sort of relevence that this has with what I said….
I watched Bugs Bunny this morning.. what would you know about that?
You see, I told you I was feeling better but now I am feeling great!
How pathetic, now you’re acting like a Leftist.. driven by nothing but emotions and ignorance.
I wouldn’t bring up Lebanon: an example of the way Arab/Muslim politics is being played THERE is the constant blowing-up of any politician who opposes Syrian interests there, and the murder of any reporter investigating the bombings. By focusing attention on alleged sins of the Israelis, the Syrian government is able to divert attention from the grossest sort of Syrian imperialism going on in Lebanon.
Asa I wish you got this much response about our 400 year sojourn here in a America , but understanding the nature of things thats not going to happen.As Malcom said we have crocodile tears to shed for everyone but ourselves.
Beware of the smiling faces the Bnai Brith muslim of the year award will one day seem meaningless.Dont buy into the moderate Muslim jive,any true Muslim is moderate. We have been told to take the middle path.
Under the provision of the Constitution of Medina that “The Jews of Banu Awf [non-Muslim minorities] are a community along with the believers. To the Jews their religion, and to the Muslim their religion,” the foundations of the tolerance that Muslims showed towards Jewish traditions and belief were again laid in the time of our Prophet (saas).
In the early years of Islam, some Muslims who suffered oppression at the hands of the polytheists of Mecca lived in friendship and peace with Christians by sheltering with the Christian king of Ethiopia, Negus (or al-Najashi).
“Only argue with the People of the Book in the kindest way-except in the case of those of them who do wrong-saying, ‘We believe in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our Allah and your Allah are one and we submit to Him,'” (Surat al-‘Ankabut: 46)
There are many enemies of Islam who would like to hold you up as the Muslim Bill Cosby but my feeling is you are sharper than that.
Speak out against terror but beware of SMILING FACES.
Vince P says “driven by nothing but emotions and ignorance.” –that is the pot calling the kettle black for sure.
The day that LGF celebrates my post would be the day I will feel like the most humiliated person in the world.
The right-wing and THE LOBBY’s prime goal is to kill CAIR, because CAIR represents the only legitimate resistance to the Islamophobic agenda. And now they have found an ally in your post, brother. A Muslim should always weigh the pros and cons of all situation. And even when he doesn’t like something, he weighs its benefits against its harms. I know that’s not your style, but perhaps you would have thought about just this one family’s gratefulness for the return of their 3-year toddler, if not the countless other areas that they have helped Muslims– never asking if you are a black Muslim, a white Muslim, an Indian Muslim or an Arab Muslim.
Very disappointed akhi. Not that you condemned the act of terrorism, which it is. Disappointed because there was no balance in showing the acts of far worse terrorism committed by the Israelis, and disappointed that you would drag CAIR/MAS into it again. One last question: have you ever actually talked to any of the people in these organizations’ leadership? Offered to help, change what you find wrong?
your brother
amad
I found this thread one of the most interesting I have seen in a long time.
First to the substance of this post. One cannot look at the problems of the Muslim world and not see the correlation between those problems and very tendencies that are the subject of this post. Hamas is an Islamic organization and will tell you their adherence to their faith is their highest priority and that their interpretation of Islam is correct.
What other group of people celebrate the deaths innocent civilians like Hamas? The great truth is they are doing this in Islam’s name and to say anything else is an obscene lie.
What future can possibly exist for a society build on an ideology that smiles upon gunning down unarmed teenagers?
This is the question that challenges the entire Muslim world. The entire future of the Islamic faith will be decided on this. Islam cannot and will not survive if it cannot find in in itself an Islam that refuses to desecrate the name of the Creator with these acts of evil.
How can a society focus all of its efforts on slaughtering students at prayer over clean water, literacy and representative government?
Lastly, Mr. Haqq above has only read the Islamic commentaries about how wonderful and tolerant live under Islam was for the other “people of the book.”
Christian and Jewish sources agree that Mr. Haqq’s ideas of tolerance are how Muslims would like to think how they treated their subjects, the history books paint a a different picture- one of deprivation and second class citizenship with the occasional outrage and massacre tossed in. While life for the Jews under Islam was markedly better than life under Christian rule, 1400 years under Islamic rule made a convincing case for the need to have a Jewish State.
CAIR represents the only legitimate resistance to the Islamophobic agenda.
CAIR is FUELING people’s suspicion and disapproval of Islam. If you HONESTLY want to improve Non-Muslim’s view of Muslims and Islam then you’ll run far away from CAIR. We’re not deceived over what CAIR’s objectives are. And it’s pathetically small membership shows that most Muslims do not like it either.
Disappointed because there was no balance in showing the acts of far worse terrorism committed by the Israelis
I love this… the delusion that goes through a certain segment of the Islamic world is amazing.
CAIR, with its millionth of a fraction of power compared to THE LOBBY (AIPAC etc), is still a nemesis that you right-wingers can’t wait to go away. But inshalah it isn’t going away anytime soon. It will get stronger and stronger and cut right through your lies and propaganda.
I don’t care what you think CAIR is fueling because for right-winger zio-cons like you, the only good Muslim is one who doesn’t hate on Israel or doesn’t practice Islam at all.
I don’t intend on carrying on in a conversation with LGF bigots like you and your friends. Say all the crap you want, your little group of Israeli zio-cons and hillbillies are the only people who care. That is why the Republican party that started catering to your type of crap, lost the last round of elections and will lose the next one as well.
My question for my brother Abdur-Rahman (not to the LGF cockroaches): Can you pls point to me where AIPAC or ADL condemned the civilian massacre in Gaza? Is this only supposed to be a one-way street? 50+ civilians (based on the Israeli human-rights group press-release) and hardly a whimper. Yet less than 10 Israelis die and it as if the whole nation has been burnt alive? Is Palestinian blood is just cheaper?
Why the Republican party needs to separate itself from bigots like LGF:
The Blowback of Fear-Mongering and Islamophobia — Haunting GOP??
When will true conservatives take the party back from the neo and zio-cons? Hope they do before Republicans become a non-player.
For Amad:
Michael Walzer is one of the leading political philosophers of our time, and a man of the Left. Here is his argument regarding situations such as Gaza:
When terrorists intentionally shoot hundreds of rockets at enemy civilians, while hiding among their own civilians and using them as human shields, the responsibility for what occurs from the counterfire and retaliation lies with the terrorists–AND ONLY WITH THE TERRORISTS. They–and ONLY THEY–are responsible for the casualties among the civilians whom they intentionally hide among while shooting hundreds of rockets at civilians.
“Judah HaKohain,
Would I be right to assume you are the ultimate antisemitic troll? (I only ask so that others take note.)”
Um, I have no idea what that means.
Amad thinks he is such a ‘rebel’ for attacking the Jews and that only the ‘uncle toms’ would do otherwise. Unfortunately, he does not comprehend how things work.
In the 1920s, there were plenty of Arabs and wealthy sheiks that welcomed the Zionist project. But the British elites (‘aristocratic’ blue bloods) made sure to appoint the Jewhater Hajj Amin Al Husseini to grand mufti, lest Jews and Arabs actually get along and threaten the Western elites. Not surprisingly, Husseini was the lapdog of not only the British, but later Adolf Hitler. Fascist elites band together, and love playing divide and conquer games such as this.
Thus, the most loathesome thing to the elites is a uniter of the peasants, a uniter of the working class. MLK was such a person. And note that he was snuffed out. And note that the ‘divide and conquer’ tool Al Sharpton is celebrated by the DC establishment (never mind that blacks have made it clear that he does not speak for them).
When you ‘get along’ with others, when you threaten the elites with a peasant rebellion (as MLK did), that’s when you are being a ‘rebel’. When you gladly partake of their divide and conquer games, you are anything but.
Why are you so enamored of the ideology that was elevated by the British, a policy which was later taken over by the US (who has long sponsored the palestinian authority, which brutalizes and kills palestinians that want to live in peace with Jews)?
Does this make you a ‘rebel’? Or do you have some kind of inherent Jew hatred that is such a strong part of your being that you will gladly adopt this ideology that was celebrated by your British masters? And the US celebrates it too while lying about the fact that Abu Mazen is a nazi inspired Jew hater.
The real Charles of Little Green Footballs is a bigot islamophobic xenophobic opportunist who is making money out of his gullible followers (the lizard army). He is one of the smarter rightards who knows how to use the other rightards and capitalize on their fear and xenophobia.
Hamas is democratically elected by the Palestinian people. Sooner or later, the big powers have to bow down to the will of people and negotiate with Hamas. If Israelis don’t wake up, they will only make life harder for themselves. One rocket attack a month is enough to keep them miserable. If they truly want peace, there is only one way: get the hell out of Gaza and West bank, stop demolishing Palestinian homes, no checkpoints, no humiliation, no child killing, but hey that means the death of the dream of Zionism. Your other option is to continue oppressing the innocent people of Palestine and sooner or later deal with the increasing Muslim anger. The next big war will cost both sides a lot. The Israelis and they friends can stop the next big war by rethinking their strategies.
Abdur-Rahman
You have made an amazing fuss and brought attention to the sores that need attention rather than ignored. There is a definite rift on this issue. American Muslims stand against such acts in Islam’s name while other segments would prefer to remain silent or silently display their pleasure in their homes.
Keep calling a spade a spade bro
We saw all the “innocent people of Palestine” dancing in the streets celebrating murder like a bunch of 8th Century barbarians.
LGF’s latest post on this identifies someone who has posted comments both here and there to discredit the site – a type of trolling he refers to as a “moby”, taking on an identity that posts such extreme views that if they aren’t read as strictly sarcastic they can only be intended to discredit the site. I suspect at least a couple of those have run riot on this thread (and if Abdur Rahman were to check IPs I bet he would find one or two posting under more than one name) and it was why I made that comment to “Judah HaKohain”, who raised an irrelevant and common libel and then provided an inadequate and absurd defence against it.
I hope Br. Abdur-Rahman you repudiate the support of LGF, like you would repudiate the support of any bigots and hate-mongers. I am sure you are aware of the hatred and vitriol that LGF is spreading on Muslims.
No doubt, amad, you would rather smear the site altogether, but I think it has long been serving an important function in exposing the mechanisms of the Muslim Brotherhood et al, albeit mainly for the benefit of non-Muslims. Charles does have the goodwill to link a blog like this specifically so as to demonstrate that there are Muslims making the running also, and I personally hope LGFers will gravitate like me to a fair position in all such matters concerning Muslims. It’s a mixed bunch on LGF. I think Charles Johnson is a man of integrity, genuinely striving to hit the right notes in his opposition to jihadis and other nefarious forces (such as certain European fascists who sought to spearhead the issues he raises). If some commenters go embarrassingly overboard in their condemnations, and not so far as to get banned, you’ll see a lot less of it with every Abdur Rahman they come across, keeping the faith and rejecting extremist politics. Still those posters are no more endorsed by Charles’ blog than your comments or mine are by Abdur Rahman’s. Nor has either blog especially endorsed the other. I hope if he acknowledges the “support” of LGF, which to date amounts to some links, Abdur Rahman sees no need to repudiate it, but a response might make interesting reading.
Regarding Little Green’s post #120-
Your argument that we need to accept Hamas and deal with them simply because they were democratically elected seems unsupportable. Hitler was duly elected by the Reichstag- did that give his aims and actions more legitimacy? Hamas IS a terrorist organization that intentionally targets civilians- including women and children. The fact that they are democratically elected doesnt absolve them of their crimes, or neccesarily make them a legitimate government.
For that matter, if Hamas IS a legitimate government, then they are fully responsible for commiting acts of war against another country by allowing rocket attacks to be fired against a sovregn nation from within their territory. If the canadians were firing rockets over niagra falls into downtown Buffalo, would the US put up with that? Would ANY country put up with that? If Hamas wants to be treated like a legitimate government, then shouldnt they act like one? Or are they entitled to all the privileges without any of the responsibilities?
Regarding your theory that Israel’s only path to peace lies through the end of occupation, may I just point out that every time israel tries to disengage and turns over control to the palestinians of any given area, the first thing those fucking idiots do is to start firing rockets at Israel from the area they just were given back. What the hell is Israel supposed to do? If the goddamned palestinians would just conduct themselves properly, they would have had their own sovreign state AND peaceful Israeli neighbors decades ago.
Every time there is a new round of violence, it is ALWAYS the palestinians, hamas, etc. who start it- usually with some cowardly attack on innocent civilians. The palestinians are TOTALLY responsible for all of their own misery. They hold the chains of their bondage in their own hands!
One thing that absolutely drives me crazy about pro-palestian/ anti-israel advocates like you is how you try to draw moral equivilancy between INTENTIONAL attacks on civilians, and UNINTENTIONAL collateral damage occuring as a result of somebody trying to protect themself. It’s NOT the same thing, and you can’t possibly be so stupid as to believe that it IS the same thing. ( See Arthur Eckstein’s post # 117 as I couldnt possibly say it any better than he did .) I can only assume then, that you are just saying things that you know are not true for the sake of recruiting support among those who do not have higher-level reasoning capabilities, or among those who are filled with so much hate that they don’t NEED to reason.
Think for a monent-Do you really think Israel WANTS to be in palestine? Why would they? What do they gain EXCEPT security for their people? I think that Israelis want nothing more than to just be left the hell alone, and every time they have to roll in there and crack heads, it’s because they were left with no choice by the hamas/PLO murderers. I have a novel idea… just ONCE… let’s see the palestinians try a strategy they have never tried before- let’s see them act like civilized human beings who respect the lives of innocents, and conduct themselves like good neighbors who want to live in peace with Israel. Maybe THAT’s what needs to happen for there to be peace. I suspect that Israel would leave all the occupied teritories tomorrow if they had any realistic hope that they wouldnt just be attacked for doing so. Does anybody dispute the truth of that statement? If so, then why dont the palestinians put my theory to the test and lets see what happens?
The most popular show in israel is the source of the new HBO series “In Treatment”, which deals with a psychiatrist helping emotionally distraught patients. In the popular Israeli show one part deals with the traumatic effect (guilt) upon an Israeli soldier because he accidently killed civilians while hunting terrorists in the West Bank. In the American version, it’s a U.S. Airforce officer who accidentally bombed a Madrassah and is riddled with guilt.
BY CONTRAST, can you imagine a Hamas or Hezbollah or Al Aqsa Bridage terrorists WORRIED about this? Don’t be absurd! On the contrary–these people have been ideologically primed to kill civilians, including children, and they intend to kill civilians, including children. They CELEBRATE killing civilians, including children. And the Arab “street” in Gaza celebrates as well.
There, my Muslim and non-Muslim friends, is the difference.
Lex, the King David hotel thing happened how many years ago? 62? It certainly hasn’t been Israeli policy.
How many years ago was it that Palestinians use unguided, un-targeted rockets against civilians? .01? Is it policy for them to use such weapons? Absolutely. It is further the stated objective of the properly elected government of Gaza to destroy Israel utterly, unlimited warfare.
Gazans have no moral authority left, not even the children who are educated from their first word to kill Israelis. They have no excuses.
I’ll read up on all that nifty philosophy, and you argue with a policeman, a prosecutor, and a judge. We can trade notes when you’re paroled.
Regarding the king david hotel, the tactic used by the Israeli ‘terrorist’ groups was to attack buildings, not people. And multiple phone call warnings were given to the KDH. Those who received the phonecalls did not admit this until 1979. And why would they, when they can keep quiet and use it to demonize the Jews?
Not to mention the fact that these ‘terrorist’ groups were deemed such by the British, who at that point were allied with the Arabs and various imported German nazis in an effort to crush Israel and receive military base rights in the future Arab state. One can read the details on this by googling ‘british record on partition’ , available on Jared Israel’s website.
So essentially what you have, is Jewhaters branding the Jews that defend Jews as ‘terrorists’ or ‘right wing zealots’, as opposed to the kapo Jews that aided and assisted the nazis of course. These are the Jews that are quite beloved by the establishment. And this is why 2000 years of history tends to lie about and slander the Jews.
This is a response to the post made by Ty Harris.
Israel and the US never accepted the results of the 2006 Palestinian elections. This means these states don’t consider Hamas a legitimate representative of the Palestinian nation. Hamas has repeatedly requested to negotiate with the US and Israel without any preconditions. Here is an interview with Khaled Mashaal on youtube:
Israel has not only rejected any negotiations with Hamas but also assassinated Hamas activists along with innocent people (that you consider collateral damage). The rocket attacks are simply a retaliation for what Israel has been doing for a long time.
You compare Hamas with Hitler? The German army was a real threat to Eruope while Hamas is backed by simple weapons and home-made rockets for god’s sake. Israel has one of the strongest military in the world. How could negotiating with Hamas pose a danger as Hitler did? Even with Hitler, wouldn’t you negotiate with Hitler in 1935? Isn’t the US negotiating though indirectly with North Korea? There is nothing wrong with negotiating with Hamas. If your reasoning is that Hamas is responsible for the death of your civilians, well the IDF is responsible for much worse.
Your next point about Israeli withdrawal being followed by attacks on Israel is not substantiated with evidence. Israel’s withdrawal from south Lebanon was not followed by attacks from Hizbullah. In fact the opposite is true and Israel has many Hizbullah activists, kidnapped, tortured, and killed. The same is true about Palestinian activists.
The new rounds of violence is not started by the Palestinians. Israel has been killing Palestinians constantly for the past few months. When Hamas retaliates by firing useless pieces of metal into Israel killing one Israeli once in a month, that becomes an excuse for a heavy retaliation by the IDF giving birth to more terror attacks from the Palestinian side.
Norman Finkelstein has studied the claim of unitnentional killing by the IDF and there is only one conclusion: For the Israelis trying hard not to kill innocent bystanders, they are damn good at it. I suggest reading his books and visiting his website: normanfinkelstein.com
Think for a monent-Do you really think Israel WANTS to be in palestine? Why would they? What do they gain EXCEPT security for their people? I think that Israelis want nothing more than to just be left the hell alone, and every time they have to roll in there and crack heads, it’s because they were left with no choice by the hamas/PLO murderers.
If Israel doesn’t want to be in Palestine, they’d do well to pull down the illegal settlements.
Little Green-
Sorry for my delayed response. I’ve been exhausted after work the last 2 nights. I enjoy solving all of the world’s problems on the internet, but alas, I am sometimes required to leave my keyboard and go out into the world to do irrelevant, mundane things like earning money to pay the bills…
Regarding your statement that the US and Israel have never considered Hamas to be a legitimate representative of the palestinian people, I guess I would agree with that. What I don’t understand is that you say it as though it’s a bad thing…( ? ) Non-association with some people is a badge of honor, and that is surely the case in this instance. Hamas is a terrorist organization that intentionally targets and murders women, children, babies etc with suicide bombers in crowded marketplaces, on buses full of innocent people, at weddings, at places of worship, and in schools. These are FACTS Little Green. Would you have us associate with such people, or have us treat them as peers in the community of nations? It doesn’t matter how you try and spin your propaganda, or how you try to rationalize these people. I don’t CARE if they were elected or not. Murder is murder. You CANNOT polish this turd no matter HOW hard you try. Hamas HAS no legitimacy, they never will, and the only thing they deserve is to be hunted down by the forces of justice in this world- (the IDF, Mossad,TEAM-AMERICA WORLD POLICE etc. )- and shot like dogs for their crimes against humanity, as far as I’m conscerned. They are entitled to nothing.
One of my favorite pictures of all time was a great shot I saw in the newspaper of what was left of Ahmed Yassin after the Israelis smoked his sorry ass with a couple of Hellfire missiles ( proudly made in America I might add ). The picture showed this bony leg sticking up out of a smoking pile of rubble, and I remember thinking what beautiful, poetic justice it was, that a man who had dedicated his life to blowing up innocent women and children wound up being blown to smithereens himself. I’m sure that God himself guided that missile with his own hand that day and that he did so with a smile on his face.
Regarding your peace-loving hero Kaled Mashaal, and his oh-so-generous offer to “negotiate with no pre-conditions” with the US and Israel, you’ll have to forgive me if I doubt the man’s sincerity and intentions. Bull-shit is not exactly at a premium in that part of the world, so I hope you won’t mind if I judge Hamas and Mr. Mashaal by their actions, and not by their words. Again- you are trying to polish a turd with empty words, and the fact that this guy – who has intentionally murdered more innocent men, women and children than Manson, Gacey, Ramirez, and Dahmer combined- is magnanimously willing to “negotiate” with us doesnt change who and what Hamas is.
Every organization in this world- from the Girl-Scouts to Hamas seeks to present themselves in the best possible light. Everybody spins. Everybody engages in public relations. Everybody speaks words. You do not discern good from evil by watching bullshit on you-tube… You discern the true from the false by observing “the fruits of the spirit”- ie. the ACTIONS that people take, and the deeds they do. Mashaal and Hamas want ONE thing- they have stated it over and over again, and have repeatedly demonstrated their commitment to that goal through their actions- and that goal is the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of Isreal. Let’s be clear here- They HATE Isreael. They want to WIPE ISREAL OFF THE MAP. They do not even acknowledge the right of Israel to EXIST… These are indisputable FACTS. These facts underlie and explain everything Hamas/ Mashaal does and says, MUCH more plausibly than the fairly tale of goodwill and peaceful intentions you seem to be spinning here. Your portrayal of Mashaal and Hamas as wrongfully-spurned seekers of peace is total bullshit and you know it.
If you have ever read “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”, you HAVE to see the similarities between Hamas’s desire to “negotiate”, and Hitler’s desire for “negotiations” with Checkeslovakia, Austria, and Poland just prior to World War 2. The aims and intentions of Hamas/Mashaal and Germany/Hitler towards their would-be victims are totally identical, and the actual words that both speak are/were in both cases irrelevant- just lullabyes designed to sooth idiot liberal Western politicians into in-action, and to keep the minion drones like you believing in the cause.
Look, let’s be honest here shall we? – Mashaal has no credibility and you know it. If you choose to believe in this man’s words in spite of his actions, then that’s because you are a person who believes what they WANT to believe regardless of reality, facts, or objective truth. You have plenty of company- the world is full of people like you. All I can say is enjoy the Kool-Aid and have fun in your imaginary idealogical playhouse. Objective truth and intellectual honesty isn’t for everyone, and seeing what you see, as opposed to what you WANT to see is often uncomfortable. I understand completely.
Here is a quick lesson on discernment from a far better teacher than me:
“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits shall ye know them.”- Mathew 7:15-20
Objectively speaking, I ask you- have the actions of the Palestinans leaders, Hamas, and the PLO brought the Palestinian people grapes and figs, or thorns and thistles?
Your on-going ridiculous and intellectually flacid attempts to claim moral equivilancy between the people you support – who INTENTIONALLY target civilians, women , and children ( It’s a FACT! ), and the people I support- who are trying to selectively go after their attackers and sometimes UN-INTENTIONALLY kill innocent bystanders in the course of that, are basically beyond reasoning with. You HAVE to be able see the difference, and I can only conclude that you simply don’t WANT to see the difference. Has it ever occured to you that maybe the reason why so many innocent bystanders wind up getting in the way of Israeli attacks is because the gutless whussies in Hamas and Hezbollah shoot their rockets at civilian populations and then INTENTIONALLY HIDE in civilian populations even when they KNOW that Israel is going to respond against them? In your mind, do they not bear ANY responsibility for the consequences of their choice to commit crimes against humanity and to then go and hide among civilians? Of course they do bear responsibility, and you know it, dammit. You just aren’t intellectually honest enough to admit it.
Regarding your statement that “the new rounds of violence is not started by palestine.” , welll… I guess that when two armed parties are trading blows back and forth for 40 years, arguing over who started the “latest round” is a case of which came first- the chicken or the egg. Both sides are attacking and counter-atacking. The difference is in the two sides’ overall intentions, and in their choice of how they conduct themselves as they seek their respective goals. Your side goes merrily about it’s business intentionally blowing up students, babies, commuters,shoppers etc… throwing senior- citizens in wheel-chairs off of cruise ships, executing olympic athletes, and launching rockets indiscriminatly at civilian populations in pursuit of their lofty and noble goal of exterminating their neighbors to the north. My homies- the israelis- continue plotting, assasinating, and targeting the leadership of your merry band of thugs every chance they get- in pursuit of their own safety and survival as a nation. If you choose to draw moral equivilancy between the two sides in the conflict after seeing how each side has conducted themselves down through the years, well, again- I hope you enjoy the Kool-Aid. I hear grape is good, but make sure you try the tropical punch .
As far as the rightness or wrongness of negotiating with enemies, islamic lunatics etc. etc.- well, I guess as a general principal, it never hurts to communicate- for what it’s worth. But historically speaking, the language that tyrants, criminals, and other assorted murderers speak best is the language of brute force. It’s certainly the method that Hamas/ PLO/Hezbollah prefer to speak with to their innocent victims, so i say let’s talk back to them in a language they can understand loud and clear. Communication of this sort is good , I think.
As far as words and “negotiations” go, I’ll leave that to the State Department. Personally, I come from the “Creighton Abrams School of Diplomacy” ( “Grab em’ by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow…” )
Good Night and Good Luck- Ty
131 Sura-
SOMEDAY there will be a line drawn SOMEWHERE, between two countries, and there will be a big-ass wall between them. Some of these settlements represent strategic planning on Isreal’s part, as to where that line will go, and some of them represent bargaining chips to haggle with – ie. something to give up when the time comes. Some of them though, are just there because of the ultra-orthodox true-believers who figure it’s “their land”, and they are just defying the government outright. Israel has ( literally ) dragged these people out of their homes plenty of times before, in the course of turning over land to palestinian control, and I’m sure they will again. It’s the least of our problems.
Regarding some of the references to drinking Kool-Aid in some of my earlier comments, it occurs to me that some of the young whipper-snappers reading the comments here might not get the reference…
here is a wickipedia link to the Jonestown Massacre. It’s a classic case-study in propaganda, the destructive consequences of self-deception, and cult psychology. To the unfamiliar, read the story and the Kool-aid reference will become clear….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
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