…if this fool threw his shoes at Saddam Hussein, “President” Mubarak, King Mohammed, King Abdullah, or President Al Asad? You all get the point.
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A Singular Voice 
This argument is fallacious on it’s head. Who cares about those misguided and despotic rulers?
The fact is King Bush, who by the way wasn’t elected by the people, is one of the vilest warmongers of the century. Hundreds of thousands have died because of his lies and stupidity and anyone with dignity can see the stark difference between some one throwing a shoe at a foriegner responsible for occupation and murder and one who is a guest.
In my opinion this man is a hero not only for Muslims but for people around the world including Americans. If Obama was up there you think a shoe would have been thrown at him? No!
Also dont think he is being treated great. We already know his arm has been broken and he has been severely beaten, I just hope they don’t torture him even more.
-MT
This incident cemented what the world thinks of Bush.This man is a loser and his presidency proves it.To bad the shoes missed this jerk.
THAT WAS AWSOME. I FEEL SORRY FOR THE REPORTER. THEY PUT HIM IN PRISON. hE SHOULD HAVE BEAT BUSH WITH A BASE BALL BAT
Kwame
You’re missing the point. That Bush is universally despised is a given, but successful government is predicated on civility and the rule of law. The vast majority of Americans feel the same way about Bush that the shoe thrower did, but how they express that contempt is entirely different.
Americans express disgust and discontent through the ballet box, newspapers, blogs, protests, demonstrations, etc. They don’t do it through gross displays of public disrespect for the office. When people act wild like that it destroys society.
Bush got what he deserved, well the shoes missed so he almost got what he deserved. The fact that many people don’t show as much contempt for Bush here in US in the same way just shows the cowardice of people. As well as the sorry state of people’s hearts.
I agree with Abdur-Rahman on this one, we as Muslims have to display civility at all times. This uncouth behavior (applauded by some) bleeds over into how deal with each other. Take Hajj for example how instead of just pebbles, all types of things are thrown from bricks to yes even shoes, we should not brook ninkompoop antics which makes us look savage. And those who say truthfully his responsible for the deaths of many Muslims, I agree but since when do throw shoes at someone who has ordered the death of your brother? What’s next hurling snot at Chainey?
I wish the shoe had hit him. How about that? Abdur-Rahman and Abu Usamah, when you have seen men, women and children killed, your entire country thrown into chaos, live with suicide bombings etc. every day then you can sit on your high horses and judge.
” I wish the shoe had hit him. How about that?”
Jamerican Muslimah,
You are only able to proffer that opinion because you live in a country that not only tolerates your contempt for its chief executive, but posivtivelty protects your right to voice it. How about that?!
This is not even about Bush, really. Saddam wasn’t responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis? Of course he was, but the man who threw the shoe wouldn’t even THINK of throwing a shoe at Saddam’s dog keeper, much less Saddam himself, cause if he did he and his whole family would be to finished. That is the point Jamerica.
I’m sorry to say it, but even the companions of the Prophet (as) couldn’t work out their differences without mass bloodshed, and the Arab/Muslim world is in the same condition today. They have no conception of government other than a 7th century khalifah, which in today’s modern terms is nothing but a strongman.
Without rule of law, civility, and respect for the offices of govenment the Arabs will go on killing themselves another thousand years.
Jamerican Muslimah
First we all as Muslims can and should judge what’s correct by the Quran and Sunnah
To be certain the horrors you mention can explain why he threw the shoes but does not justify such stupid behavior. Tell me Sister would not the lost lives of the thousands of our fellow Muslims have been better honored if this brother had used his journalistic skills to record the horrors that occured. Horrors which could one day be used at a war crimes trial against Bush & crew?
What this brother has done is bring mockery to the plight of Iraqis, do you honestly think that the millions of non-Muslims watching this video are now all of a sudden concerned for Iraqis?
No Sister, the world isn’t taking the lives lost in Iraq more serious because this shoe throwing, but the rather this reporter has become nothing more than a footnote in a viral video joke on Bush and nothing more.
This is no laying down in front of a tank nor marching and being attacked by dogs. I don’t advocate either those but no one can deny the power of the imagery of those acts which led to greater awareness of the partisipants respective causes yet, this is just a fool throwing shoes.
Salaam,
Im going to ramble here:
The fact of the matter is, Qur’an and Sunnah and SHARIA’ require one to respect DEEN, LIFE, INTELLECT, PROPERTY AND HONOR. All of which has been jeopardized by this NEO-CON war. Everything in our religion points to the fact that Bush shouldn’t even be allowed to visit Iraq, or any other Muslim country for that matter. Who shakes hands with the murderer of his children? The fact of the matter is in the end you will have a different relationship between Muslim and Kafir, the difference between us is the shahadatayn, Allah makes this difference.
As for the Sadaam argument, Prophet pbuh said “Help your brother if he is oppressed or the oppressor. Companion said I understand how to help him if he is oppressed but how can I help him if he is oppressor? By stoping him from oppressing” With the Muslims, even if they are unrighteous, deviants, oppressors we hold out hope to change them. With our enemies we invite them to truth and if they forsake and mock it we fight them and we dont disgrace ourselves by holding news conferences with them and giving our approval to their actions without speaking a word of truth to power! That is the least we can do, this spontaneous action by this reporter is the least we can do. It lets Bushy know we dont like you, we dont like what you have done to our country, the nefarious reasons for which you invaded, the corporations you have empowered, the interruption of a natural organic resistance to oppression. It is pure rage.
Any self-respecting Muslim can see the symbolic NON-VIOLENT action that this reporter took. The argument that because some Arab or other Muslim dictator would kill someone for doing anything similar should make us eternally grateful to Bush is crude and outrageous. Yes, lets equivocate American standards with Dictatorships and Tyrannys in order to condemn; makes our points more salient.
Bush is an enemy to humanity and needs to be locked up for war crimes and his clear lack of respect for the rule of law.
ARM,
you said, “They have no conception of government other than a 7th century khalifah, which in today’s modern terms is nothing but a strongman.”
you know how silly this above statement is? I think you got it twisted brother, it seems that the problem is they have no conception of government especially the khalifate Ar’Rashida, the principles of which would destroy their power. Tell me that Umar or Ali or Abu Bark weren’t accountable to the Sharia’, God’s laws are superior to man made laws and are the real checks on the whims of any ruler.
-MT
I agree with Jamerica the bottom line is this occupation has split this country further apart then under Saddam.Inner rage is a reality with humanbeings and some times can’t be contained.We all reead Wretched of Earth or have we all sudden forgotten what Fanon talked about concerning the symptons of the conlinizedAlso brother despite Sadam being a tyrant Iraq was most advance country in that region.Unfortunely that not the case anymore.
When a person gets tricked by shaitain they start questioning their deen.Abdul Rahman you need to get a grip .The grave is real brother.M.T.Akbar this brother I’m sure doesn’t even know if he wants to be muslim anymore.Yes, brother you need to make tauba and ask Allah to guide you.Don’t lose your hereafter for this world.
Abdulrahman Muhammad said:
Quote
I’m sorry to say it, but even the companions of the Prophet (as) couldn’t work out their differences without mass bloodshed, and the Arab/Muslim world is in the same condition today. They have no conception of government other than a 7th century khalifah, which in today’s modern terms is nothing but a strongman.
End Quote
So now we have reached the point where you feel you have the right to disrespect even the Sahaba of the Prophet(saw)? Nobody can escape the vicious tongue of Abdul Nafs Muhammad right?
Wallahi I feel very sorry for you! You are truly a sorry case.
Kwame,
Why don’t you flesh that out a little bit. What part of the “deen” did I question? Where is Shaitan leading me astray? And since we have known one another for many years now why don’t you just call me and help set me straight, if you’re really concerned about my soul. Why speak about me in the third person to M.T. Akbar who you probably don’t even know?
By the way, my initial point had nothing to do with whether the invasion in Iraq was justified or not.
Brother,M.T.Akbar ihappens to be a brother I happen to know from the windycity in ChicagoBottom line certain principles we don’t cross know matter how differnces we have with other muslims.Example Anwar Al-Awlaki posting on website that was ridiclous.Man show some better muslim ethics then that.Take this Iyad once said the ‘The muslim covers and advises,while the wicked scandlizes and abuses.That was straight nonsenseand now these post mentiom the sahabbah man we ain’t shite.
May Allah reward you abundantly Brother Kwame for telling this man the truth.
I bet you he will soon be reigning insults on Our Beloved Prophet(saw)! I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he did.
Salaamaat,
bro.ARM, I do know bro.Kwame alhamdullilah. I think you got this wrong akhee, how can you call this man a fool! It boggles the mind.
bro. Kwame JAK for that Fanon reference, it was on point alhamdullilah. I need to read that book.
To go off Kwame’s and sis.UmmAfnan’s points, it seemed very dismissive and insulting the way you phrased that paragraph about the early Khilafah and the Sahabah. Allahu Musta3aan. Are you referring to the Khilafah Rashida whose principles are a guide to how good government should be, or the Ummayad, you left your self wide open to that question? As far as the fitna that occurred between them, we have to be careful when broaching the topic: Allah loved this people, he was happy with them and pleased with them. They were also from the Awliyaa and it is known that those who abuse the awliya of Allah should fear a terrible retribution. The implication in your post seemed to be a put down and your attempt at correlating the conditions of todays Arabs with the Sahabas is ridiculous and degrading.
Honestly, I would be quite surprised at you defaming the khilafah rashida since the principles derived from their rule aside from most importantly being upon Quran and Sunnah have many commonalities with Democracy, commonalities that dont exist with any other system or ideology, and has even influenced Western law and the formation of the relationship and conceptualization of law in Democracy. The biggest difference between us being the recognition and supremacy of a Creator where as secularism, a historical Western paradigm, wishes to erase God from the political and policy making sphere.
I see from your posts you are a big proponent of Western Democracy, so these statements are quite contradictory and bizzare.
On a side note I dont want any one to get my previous post twisted as ISLAMOPHOBES are wont to do. Yes as a Muslim there is a difference between Kafir and Muslim, as is natural, but that does not stop us from living harmoniously and in a state of neighborliness and peace and I’AM not calling for people to fight non Muslims, I am expressing the right of any one to resist oppression, occupation and aggression and I dont have a false sense of patriotism that would deny me the right to call Bush a war criminal that belongs in the Hague. Also, I am not calling for hudood or sharia’ to be implemented here but for a critical and engaging approach in which we can practice our faith and if the Jews can have Bit Deins then we can have our Sharia’ bodies as well dealing with personal matters.
-MT
Salaams, MT. Akbar,
ARM first statments on the shoe thrower were correct, and I would add that each arena has it’s mode of battle. The battlefield has it’s weapons and when you go into press conference you use tough questions not throw shoes. As to his other statements as he often does he went on some wild tangent which should be reworded. Perhaps he will clarify himself in that he was not trying to insult the Sahaba. InshaAllah that was not his goal.
Everything that happens Allah wrote, yet we still have make assesments and learn. Three of the four Khalifa were murdered by men who uttered the shadatayn and prayed, surely, you have to acknowledge that Muslims have to have more civil transitions of power. This can be still done while retaining the utmost respect for the Khalifa Rasheedun.
Also, you mentioned the Beth Din rabbinical civil court, how can we even hope to have our own civil court, if we have no respect for civility?
May Allah ,reward Ummafnaan and you my brother M.T.Akbar for standing for our principles in this precious deen that Allah has given us.In the book the Role and oppostion to UmarIbnal-Khattab by Bro.Assad Nimer Busool,the author brings forth a story in history.Malik IbnSa’id al-Fariqi, who was ordered him to inscribe the cursing of the Sahabahin the mosques of Cairo.]However,the judge did not write exceptAllah’saying in the Quran;’Allah has turned in mercy to the Prophet,and to the Muhajirin and the Ansarwho followed him in the hour of hardship.at-Tawab9/117.Then he returned to al-Hakim,who askedhim;’Did you execute whatI orderedyou to do?The judge answered,Idid what please,Allah Al-Hakimasked,What is it ?The judge recited the verses to him,then he left.Al-Hakim became angry with him and his ordered his ordered histo be cut.And it was cut on Saturday ,the fifth of Dhial-Qidah year 404H.as Al-Hakim orderd.’This great scholar understand the signifance of slandering the sahabah.In voulume three of the new Haytus Sahabah pg.289 Abdullah Bin Mas’ood said’Whoever wishes to follow anyone ,should follow the companions of Muhammad because from amongst the entire Ummah,their hearts are most righteous,their knowledge is deepest, they are the least pretenious, they are most unswerrving in example and [religious] conditionis best.Allah had selected them to be the companions of his Nabi and to establish His deen.You should therefore acknowledge their worth and follow in their footsteps,because they had been fixed on upright guidance.Ibn Abdul Birr in his Jami[vol2pg.97].Abu Nuaym has reported a similar narration.Look at the qualties of Sahabah my brother Bush the war criminal ,Obama America’s new racial concillator,and uncle Collin Powel they can never be on this level but you Abdul Rahman give them morerespect then the Sahabah.May Allah guide you and give you the zeal you once had for this deen.
Abu Usmahal-Aswad muslims all around the globe Palestine,Somalia,Iraq,the list goes on and were worry about a shoe thrown at this despot.Also has anybody talk about the missle that was sent into Pakistan last week.This keeps going on on a regular bases.Yes muslims we have our issues no doubt but George Bush is a piece of crap and he deserves no respect ,May Allah ,gives him what he deserves.
Abu Usamah,
“Three of the four Khalifa were murdered by men who uttered the shadatayn and prayed,surely, you have to acknowledge that Muslims have to have more civil transitions of power.”
Not to nit pick but that’s not accurate. Two of three who were assasinated were killed by Muslims. Umar r was murdered by Abu Lulu who was a Persian Magian, and this was of great relief to Umar as he didn’t want his murderer to be a Muslim.
Also though both Uthman and Ali (rahuma) were killed in highly tense political atmospheres, I think we have to make a distinction. The infanticide and fraternalcide of later Muslim Khilafah is not a parallel to the issues of that early community. 3 of the first 4 Khulafa took leadership through a peaceful transition of power and through consensus whether after appointment or consultation.
Ali was killed by the khawarij, not by Mu’awiya’s forces, and though that was a violent time we do not know how the process would have turned out especially since they both had turned to arbitration. I agree with you though that we need civil transitions of power and as stated by some ulama, voting is a method to ensure that.
-MT
ARM you are thinking too much. Stop thinking and it will not bother you
Bush the criminal who has sanction through Americian taxpayers money a occupation that is unjustified now goes to that land to tell tem about civility.We always talk democracy and fair goverance so why did not our congress and senate come together impeach this fool.The book of worldly usages in Ghazzali Ihya is perfect in looking at how men put Allah first in their ability to govern.Goverance is responability and those who abuse should be held accountable,
MT.Akbar
your nit-picking is exactly what sought to avoid so as to stay on message, I did not call either of the three Muslim to avoid the whole issue of takfir. Nevertheless, I still stand by what I wrote that all three uttered the shahada and made salaah at one point.
How it be argued that each of their (ra) deaths were not the results of what was done or wasn’t while they held office? They were martyred by those who had no respect for rule of law, and for how they carried out their duties as Khalifa. This lack of civility towards leadship is what’s at question.
And this lack of civility prevents a more reasonable leadership from assuming power. What results is “strong men” dictators that keep the peace by the most vicious of means.
Since the subject keeps jumping back to the target of the shoes, I couldn’t careless about him. This is the open internet and I am not hankering to wear an orange jump suite anytime soon.
Saber rattling and inconsequential futile rogue acts, can never replace reasoned planned righteous resistance nor maintaining moral authority.
Salaam,
Abu Usamah, you’re making a factual mistake that’s what I alluded to not the issue of takfir. Abu Lu’luah the murderer of Umar (r) was a Magian (Zoroastrian).
“Amr I. Maymun said, Umar said: ‘Praise be to Allah who did not make my decree of death to be at the hands of a man who claimed Islam.'” – (The History of the Khalifahs, Suyutui, p.140-41)
Ibn Abbas said: “Abu Lu’luah was a Magian.” (p.140)
Civil transitions of power, which is what we were talking about initially is different then the subject you brought up of them being killed for something they did during their rule. For instance even when Kennedy was assasinated there was a civil transition to power when LBJ took over. In the same way when Umar (r) was assasinated he appointed a shura of the learned Sahabah to choose a successor.
-MT
MT.Akbar
Shukraun for the correction, I was mistaken. I thought I had read once that Abu Lulu had claimed Islam. So again I stand corrected, the sad thing is that I purchased the book you mentioned (actually I have a few Ta-Ha published books) but loaned it out.
can you tell us what was Abu Lulu reasoning for the killing?
Salaam Abu Usamah,
‘Afwan. The book states that Abu Lu’luah was a slave of Mughirah, and that Mughirah asked to be allowed to bring him into Medinah as he had many skills and was given permission by Umar. Mughirah put a demand upon Abu Lu’luah for 100 dirhams to which Abu Lu’luah complained to Umar as being too much, Umar replied that it wasnt too much and so Abu Lu’luah became upset and threatened him. He saw that Umar was just to everyone but he felt he was being unjust to him, whereas Umar wanted to speak with Mughirah alone to change the situation. This seems to be the reason he assasinated Sayyidina Umar (r).
I think this incident was hilarious, but a further disgrace to our ummah. What’s more sickening is a Saudi brother offering to pay $10 million for them instead of giving those funds to our starving sisters and brothers spread throughout the world. This man should be given whatever punishment is appropriate for insulting the guest of the country (regardless of his feelings towards that guest). I could care less for most folks who cross my path daily, but I don’t find it necessary to embarrass myself by acting like an uncultured CUSSWORD.
As Muslims, we need to CONTROL OURSELVES. This is not the example our beloved Prophet left us NOR the guidance given in the Quran…and we wonder why we are suffering throughout the world… BECAUSE OF WHAT OUR HANDS HAVE EARNED… Will we ever learn? DOUBT IT!
Then again, for every African sister in Sudan that was raped and burned by an Arab,
For every slave that was raped and lynched by the so called founders of the new worlds
For every first Nation (Native Americans), raped and scalped by the so called founders of the new world….
…I have some heels I can barely walk in and very good aim!
I’M SORRY BUT I THINK IT WAS SOOOOOOO AWSOME AND I DON’T THINK HE SHOULD HAVE THROWN SHOES. HE SHOULD HAVE THROWN A BOMB ON HIM LIKE WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ALL OF THOSE IRAQI PEOPLE. I’LL BET IF YOU WATCHED YOUR FAMILY GETTING RAPED AND MURDERED IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE YOU WOULD WANT TO THROW MORE THAN A COUPLE OF SHOES. i SAW PICTURES POSTED ON THE INTERNET OF AMERICAN SOLDERS RAPING IRAQI WOMAN AND IT MADE ME SO SICK i COULDN’T EAT FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS. I’M AN AMERICAN CONVERT AND I SEE EVERY MUSLIM AS MY BROTHER AND SISTER NO MATTER WHAT COUNTRY THEY ARE FROM. yOU CAN’T MAKE THOSE KIND OF REMARKS UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN IN THAT SITUATION. WHAT THE SOLDERS HAVE DONE TO PEOPLE WAS TO SICK TO EVEN KNOW.